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Previously on "Self-employed for 2 foreigner clients, tax issues?"

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  • WordIsBond
    replied
    Originally posted by blackjoe24 View Post
    To add to the mix, the main USA client actually pay me through an agency who take on all the legal responsibility when it comes to any possible insurance risk.

    In that case, do I gain anything by incorporating? I took a quick read of this useful article, and it looks like I would make less than 1k per year extra as a Ltd vs Soletrader if making 100k - probably less in the 2018/19 tax year?
    https://www.wiseaccountant.co.uk/sole-trader-or-ltd/

    After considering accountant costs, is there much point?
    I don't know anything about the people and organisations involved nor the type of work you do. Nor do I know whether you own your own home or have other assets that could be at risk if you get sued. But your first sentence above sounds very naive.

    What is your guarantee that, if something goes wrong and it is your fault, the client won't sue both you and the agency? What is your guarantee that if they sue the agency, the agency won't sue you?

    Is the agency in the US or the UK? Do you have a contract with the client, the agency, or both? Do you have any contracts with either governed by US law?

    If you KNOW the client won't sue because of what you know about them, fine. Not everyone in America is looking to drag people into court to grab punitive damages. But if you think that having an agency protects you just because the agency has bought some insurance, you don't know much about the tort system in the US.

    As for the tax benefits of Ltd, there are probably three significant ones to consider. The first is if you have a non-employed spouse. In that case, you could make your spouse a shareholder of your Ltd, pay most compensation in dividends, and all or most of the income could be below the higher rate band. That would be a significant savings over sole trader status, or over running a limited wholly owned by you and paying yourself the entire amount. If you have a spouse who is employed but paid much less than £45K, you could still do the same thing, perhaps gift a third of the shares to the spouse, and at least move some of that income out of the higher rate band.

    The second benefit is the ability to retain some profit in the company. Say you can afford to retain £30K a year in the company. If you are getting £100K a year and you pay everything as dividends, that £30K will be taxed at 32.5% dividend tax -- almost £10K in taxes. But if you can afford to leave it in the company, you build up a significant reserve in the company without having to pay that dividend tax. Then, in a couple years, when you are out of contract and are looking for a new one, you still can take dividends. But if your income is lower, at least some of those dividends will be below higher rate band, and so be taxed at 7.5% rather than 32.5%.

    The ability to retain profit is also useful if you just want to take some time off. Suppose you work hard for four years and then want to take a one year sabbatical, travel, play golf, write a book, get some training, whatever. If you've retained profit, you can pay yourself dividends during your extended holiday, and again, a lot of that dividend will be taxed at 7.5% rather than 32.5%.

    The third benefit is that your limited company can make pension contributions to your SIPP completely free of any kind of tax, up to £40K a year. As a sole trader, if you make pension contributions, it reduces your income tax, but you still have to pay National Insurance on the income used to make the contributions. Basically a pension contribution costs a sole trader 9% more than it does a limited company (which is a stupid aberration that they really ought to sort out).

    If you don't have an unemployed/underemployed spouse, and you want to take all of your money out of your company, and you aren't making any significant pension contributions, and you absolutely know you aren't going to get sued (especially not in a US court), then sole trader may make more sense. Otherwise, probably not.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjoe24
    replied
    To add to the mix, the main USA client actually pay me through an agency who take on all the legal responsibility when it comes to any possible insurance risk.

    In that case, do I gain anything by incorporating? I took a quick read of this useful article, and it looks like I would make less than 1k per year extra as a Ltd vs Soletrader if making 100k - probably less in the 2018/19 tax year?
    https://www.wiseaccountant.co.uk/sole-trader-or-ltd/

    After considering accountant costs, is there much point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew@Wisteria
    replied
    Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post
    This. Especially if the contract is under US law. It's a little less dangerous if he's using an English (or Scottish) contract. His client may be his best mate but even so, why take risks?

    I'd be very surprised if there is much risk on IR35 here. Multiple clients, foreign clients. If they want to go after an IR35 case with a foreign client to establish a precedent, they'll go after someone with a single foreign client who was formerly their employer and who did the classic Friday/Monday scenario. Unless you have stupid stuff in your contract, or unless you don't have any functioning brain cells when they ask you about it, it will be impossible for them to prove your working practices put you inside, since they can't force the client to talk to them about you. And US clients probably won't talk to them voluntarily.
    Likely to be difficult for HMRC to prove control over ‘How’ the work is carried out too so pretty safe from IR35 point of view. Furthermore if client is overseas then the legislation applies for tax but not NICs. So unlikely HMRC would pursue. Incorporation would appear to be a no brainer on the face of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • WordIsBond
    replied
    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
    In terms of incorporation, I'd be less worried about tax efficiency in this situation (it really depends on whether the OP wants to accumulate money in a company to defer tax because the advantages of incorporation disappear otherwise) and more worried about the exposure of working for US clients as a sole trader. Not something I would consider, even with decent PI insurance.
    This. Especially if the contract is under US law. It's a little less dangerous if he's using an English (or Scottish) contract. His client may be his best mate but even so, why take risks?

    I'd be very surprised if there is much risk on IR35 here. Multiple clients, foreign clients. If they want to go after an IR35 case with a foreign client to establish a precedent, they'll go after someone with a single foreign client who was formerly their employer and who did the classic Friday/Monday scenario. Unless you have stupid stuff in your contract, or unless you don't have any functioning brain cells when they ask you about it, it will be impossible for them to prove your working practices put you inside, since they can't force the client to talk to them about you. And US clients probably won't talk to them voluntarily.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    In terms of incorporation, I'd be less worried about tax efficiency in this situation (it really depends on whether the OP wants to accumulate money in a company to defer tax because the advantages of incorporation disappear otherwise) and more worried about the exposure of working for US clients as a sole trader. Not something I would consider, even with decent PI insurance.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjoe24
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    I agree with this..... but it's important for the OP to understand that if he's not using a LTD now he cannot backtrack that income.
    Also if the OP is self-employed (sounds like it if not LTD) then he should have informed HMRC some time ago.

    So definitely get professional advice. If you started after April 2017 then it (the tax) is not due till January 2019 so you have some room to breathe, notwithstanding that you need to sort out the best structure IMMEDIATELY.

    If you started before April 2017 then you have less than 30 days to sort this out.....
    I started out self-employed after April 2017 and did inform HMRC.

    Sounds like switching to a Ltd may be the way to go. Any tips on accountants to go with?

    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCyclingProgrammer
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    Also if the OP is self-employed (sounds like it if not LTD) then he should have informed HMRC some time ago.
    OP said the beginning of this tax year so they have until next October to notify HMRC. If it was the previous tax year then technically they are 3 months late in notifying HMRC but no penalty for this as long as a tax return is submitted by the end of Jan.

    I agree with the advice that tax wise going forward OP might be better off incorporating but only working for foreign clients doesn’t make you completely immune from IR35, especially if you are working like an employee so it still needs considering.

    Whilst not tax efficient, at least OP doesnt need to think about IR35 at all right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by TheGreenBastard View Post
    - 6 figures = go Ltd
    - IR35 - unlikely a concern for you with exclusively foreign clients
    - seek professional advice (do you have an accountant?)
    I agree with this..... but it's important for the OP to understand that if he's not using a LTD now he cannot backtrack that income.
    Also if the OP is self-employed (sounds like it if not LTD) then he should have informed HMRC some time ago.

    So definitely get professional advice. If you started after April 2017 then it (the tax) is not due till January 2019 so you have some room to breathe, notwithstanding that you need to sort out the best structure IMMEDIATELY.

    If you started before April 2017 then you have less than 30 days to sort this out.....

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGreenBastard
    replied
    Originally posted by blackjoe24 View Post
    I've started freelancing since the beginning of this tax year. I have 2 clients, one in US and one in Japan. I work up to 30h per week, mainly for the US client. I'll make over 6 figures this tax year.

    At the end of the tax year, I was just going to submit a self-assessment as a sole trader and then pay whatever income tax is due. However, I have started to read information about IR35 and self-employed contractors being classed as employees. It's all quite confusing!

    Any tips on whether I am doing something illegal here? I suppose my next step is to seek professional advice.
    - 6 figures = go Ltd
    - IR35 - unlikely a concern for you with exclusively foreign clients
    - seek professional advice (do you have an accountant?)

    Leave a comment:


  • cojak
    replied
    Take a look at the First Timers guides here: https://www.contractoruk.com/first_timers

    And whether your a self-employed freelancer or need to go Ltd, join IPSE https://www.ipse.co.uk

    Leave a comment:


  • SuperLooper
    replied
    Seek professional advice.

    IR35 is only a consideration if you're operating through a Ltd company.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjoe24
    started a topic Self-employed for 2 foreigner clients, tax issues?

    Self-employed for 2 foreigner clients, tax issues?

    I've started freelancing since the beginning of this tax year. I have 2 clients, one in US and one in Japan. I work up to 30h per week, mainly for the US client. I'll make over 6 figures this tax year.

    At the end of the tax year, I was just going to submit a self-assessment as a sole trader and then pay whatever income tax is due. However, I have started to read information about IR35 and self-employed contractors being classed as employees. It's all quite confusing!

    Any tips on whether I am doing something illegal here? I suppose my next step is to seek professional advice.

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