Salary sacrifice ULEV / company car ULEV

[Zylon]

@Zylon well, I guess you could argue (I'm not) that the top 5% will have proportionally a much larger carbon foot print that those lower down the income scale. Those people are far more likely to be running large cars, (and more than one) live in a large centrally heated house, perhaps with a swimming pool, obviously consume much more electricity and gas and generally have far higher per capita spending on non essentials. So, economically, on a bang per green buck basis it is probably a reasonable use of scarce resources?

In some cases I would agree. I know what you're getting at, and I'm not the type who will criticise any progressive incentive which happens to benefit the wealthy more than others. It's unavoidable that early adopters of certain technologies will often be wealthier, and if government incentives are the only way to develop the positive technologies to fall then I fully support it.

However, in the case of green energy subsidies, no it wasn't the best bang for buck in any sense. The energy savings were of a similar magnitude but the solar panel incentives were worth a few hundred pounds per year, while ground source heat pump were worth several thousand. When the incentive is so strong that it provides a strong profit above what's already a sound investment in its own right, it's just a taxpayer funded giveaway.

Also, spend per household is higher in the wealthy groups, but not by a huge margin. Rather, poorer households spend a much higher proportion of their income on fuel. (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...yearending2016)

[Fred Bloggs]

@Zylon well, I guess you could argue (I'm not) that the top 5% will have proportionally a much larger carbon foot print that those lower down the income scale. Those people are far more likely to be running large cars, (and more than one) live in a large centrally heated house, perhaps with a swimming pool, obviously consume much more electricity and gas and generally have far higher per capita spending on non essentials. So, economically, on a bang per green buck basis it is probably a reasonable use of scarce resources?

[Zylon]

Exactly, I'm wondering when the 100% FYA for ULEV will be abolished completely, they already dropped it to 50g/km from April '18

It's very odd how the government is doing it - but actually things are due to suddenly get much better from 2020 after getting progressively worse before that. Specifically, fully electric cars and hybrids with at least 130 milles electric range will carry only 2% BIK from 2020 onwards. See here:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-fa...-bik-bands-/3/

I'm not sure what the BMW hybrids' electric ranges are, but FWIW, even the mainstream electric cars like Nissan Leaf and soon Tesla model 3 will have electric range well over 130 miles in the 2018+ versions. I expect real world ranges of 200 to 300+ miles will be very common by 2020.

Of course this all depends if the Tories will honour these rates; they do have a history of cutting anything envionmentally progressive to the point it's not viable. A mainstream decent electric car like the Nissan Leaf (and soon Tesla Model 3) costing around £30k is not worth buying through the company for a standard rate dividend payer, while for a higher rate payer it's not worth except on low business mileage.

But on expensive cars it's easily worth getting through the company, and I'd bet on it staying that way. Tories only recently announced the 2020 changes I mentioned above, and even if Labour comes into power they'll likely adopt environmentally progressive policies which will benefit everyone.

This reminds me of when solar panel incentives were cut a few years ago, to the point it was no longer viable for anybody to invest in them. At the time I looked at other green investments out of interest, and the only one that was still viable on a pure cost basis was ground source heating. Funnily enough, it was by far the most expensive option with a capital cost of around £20k, and also required a large south facing garden of the a size that relatively few people will have. But for anybody who had the funds and the garden space, there were annual incentives worth a guaranteed profit of around 30% IIRC on a £20k investment, over something like 7 years - even before the energy savings were considered!

Great to see see the Tories are helping (the top 5%) to make environmentally progressive and economically sound investments

[Lost It]

Oh dear. 5 cars (All Jaguar's, from a derv to a stonking V8) and two bikes. My van just failed it's MOT rather spectacularly so it's going to become a "loss".

[gables]

Ah yeah, I have an E46 M3 for tulips and giggles, but would like something newer for once (the newest car I've ever owned was made in 2008). Also appear to have accumulated six cars in total, so one of the existing ones will have to go!

Good effort, I thought with my 2 cars, 1 van and 1 motorbike it was time to lose a car, maybe not then

[SeanT]

I had a Tesla S for a test drive part of a weekend and while at first I loved it, super-fast, super-quiet, after literally half a day novelty wore off, could see if for what it is, and expensive, extremely heavy, battery-on-wheels with a tacky interior.

Bought an older pre-depreciated Maser instead, I get a boner just looking at it and QP's are generally pretty reliable...

Ah yeah, I have an E46 M3 for tulips and giggles, but would like something newer for once (the newest car I've ever owned was made in 2008). Also appear to have accumulated six cars in total, so one of the existing ones will have to go!

[SeanT]

Although BIK rates are increasing, for expensive vehicles the savings from the 100% tax write-down should still represent a huge saving over purchasing the car personally after CT & dividend taxes, and taking the mileage allowance.

Exactly, I'm wondering when the 100% FYA for ULEV will be abolished completely, they already dropped it to 50g/km from April '18

[stek]

I now realise that salary sacrifice is not what I'm looking for at all. It seems I can buy a 50g/km hybrid (I'm now liking the look of the 740e M Sport and have arranged a test drive) and pay a fairly tiny amount of BiK on it, even if I leave this until after April. It won't be as cheap to use as a company car as say a Tesla would be from 2021 onwards, but the EV / hybrid market seems likely to have changed quite significantly by then. Much as I want a Ludicrous Model S I don't like the idea of running out of juice - and it's probably 50% more to buy it. I was leaning towards a Panamera yesterday but if I can't get it before April I could be screwed for first year allowances and the associated cashflow benefit (which is what I'm chasing here).

I had a Tesla S for a test drive part of a weekend and while at first I loved it, super-fast, super-quiet, after literally half a day novelty wore off, could see if for what it is, and expensive, extremely heavy, battery-on-wheels with a tacky interior.

Bought an older pre-depreciated Maser instead, I get a boner just looking at it and QP's are generally pretty reliable...

[Zylon]

I now realise that salary sacrifice is not what I'm looking for at all. It seems I can buy a 50g/km hybrid (I'm now liking the look of the 740e M Sport and have arranged a test drive) and pay a fairly tiny amount of BiK on it, even if I leave this until after April. It won't be as cheap to use as a company car as say a Tesla would be from 2021 onwards, but the EV / hybrid market seems likely to have changed quite significantly by then. Much as I want a Ludicrous Model S I don't like the idea of running out of juice - and it's probably 50% more to buy it. I was leaning towards a Panamera yesterday but if I can't get it before April I could be screwed for first year allowances and the associated cashflow benefit (which is what I'm chasing here).

Although BIK rates are increasing, for expensive vehicles the savings from the 100% tax write-down should still represent a huge saving over purchasing the car personally after CT & dividend taxes, and taking the mileage allowance.

The only exception could be if you're both doing high mileage and somehow paying dividend tax at basic rather than higher rate, while funding a £75k purchase from said dividends. That is possible when spreading cost over several years, but doesn't leave much for a lifestyle consistent with a £75k car

Also, you may want to add Jaguar i-Pace to that list if you can wait until mid-2018.

[SeanT]

I now realise that salary sacrifice is not what I'm looking for at all. It seems I can buy a 50g/km hybrid (I'm now liking the look of the 740e M Sport and have arranged a test drive) and pay a fairly tiny amount of BiK on it, even if I leave this until after April. It won't be as cheap to use as a company car as say a Tesla would be from 2021 onwards, but the EV / hybrid market seems likely to have changed quite significantly by then. Much as I want a Ludicrous Model S I don't like the idea of running out of juice - and it's probably 50% more to buy it. I was leaning towards a Panamera yesterday but if I can't get it before April I could be screwed for first year allowances and the associated cashflow benefit (which is what I'm chasing here).

[oilboil]

Whilst you probably should get advice from a tax professional (likely your accountant) - it would be interesting to hear any info you discover or info others already know - it's too easy to close down discussion (and get a stupidly high post count) by just replying to everything with "have you asked your accountant" - dull, predictable and contributes sweet FA to a discussion

[SeanT]

My opinion is yes, you probably should.

So incredibly reliable

[northernladuk]

Yes I should probably search, and / or ask my accountant, but it'd be nice to hear some opinions.

My opinion is yes, you probably should.

[SeanT]

Reading this at the moment, but it doesn't deal with the BIK reduction / salary sacrifice aspect: https://comanandco.co.uk/company-cars

[SeanT]

Anyone here doing this with a reasonably expensive vehicle? There isn't enough money in the business to buy it outright, but it appears there are some fairly good tax efficiencies if one combines them - there are also some awesome hybrids about compared with a year or two ago, not forgetting the Tesla option.

Struggling to find information on exactly how you would combine the purchasing and repayment options (salary sacrifice == contribution reducing BIK right, and business can get 100% corporation tax relief on the full cost of the vehicle even if doing hire purchase??)

Yes I should probably search, and / or ask my accountant, but it'd be nice to hear some opinions.