Reply to: Meals - Expenses - Cashless system

[quackhandle]

You've missed something. All meals necessarily taken in the course of business travel or whilst travelling to and working at a temporary workplace are allowable expenses (associated subsistence). Meals you prepare and take with you are not. No idea where the idea that you can't claim lunch originated from but I suspect it probably stems from umbrellas and scale rates.

The key word is "necessary" however if you're working on-site all day then its necessary to have lunch. If have to leave early and don't have time to have breakfast then the cost of a coffee and a snack on the way to a client might also be necessary. If you have to stay overnight then an evening meal might be necessary. Feeding your £10/day Starbucks habit is probably not necessary.

Just use common sense.

Definitely this. I'm up at 6am and out the door for 6.30. Breakfast is usually taken at Grand Central. So that I don't incur Mr J Dredd, I shall speak to my accountant.

qh

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I thought this wasn't permitted, ie Hector says you would eat lunch anyway and can only expense a meal if staying overnight? Or have I missed something?

qh

You've missed something. All meals necessarily taken in the course of business travel or whilst travelling to and working at a temporary workplace are allowable expenses (associated subsistence). Meals you prepare and take with you are not. No idea where the idea that you can't claim lunch originated from but I suspect it probably stems from umbrellas and scale rates.

The key word is "necessary" however if you're working on-site all day then its necessary to have lunch. If have to leave early and don't have time to have breakfast then the cost of a coffee and a snack on the way to a client might also be necessary. If you have to stay overnight then an evening meal might be necessary. Feeding your £10/day Starbucks habit is probably not necessary.

Just use common sense.

[quackhandle]

Bugger, I was looking to expense my Pret porridge with M&S Chocolate raisins.

qh

[pr1]

I thought this wasn't permitted, ie Hector says you would eat lunch anyway and can only expense a meal if staying overnight? Or have I missed something?

qh

this is what my accountant pointed me to

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...anual/eim31815

"For example a deduction would be allowed for the cost of a sandwich purchased at a station whilst travelling on business but not for the cost of a sandwich prepared at home and consumed whilst travelling as this is not a cost incurred in the course of the journey."

[LondonManc]

I thought this wasn't permitted, ie Hector says you would eat lunch anyway and can only expense a meal if staying overnight? Or have I missed something?

qh

I was assuming that the OP was staying in a hotel - my accountant advised that I couldn't claim for lunches if I had the ability to make them where I was spending the previous night, i.e. home, rented flat, etc.

[quackhandle]

Hi All

Apologies if this has been answered previously for limited companies but:

My current client operates a cashless system in their office food hall/canteen (i.e. you receive a smart card and top-up the balance manually, minimum £10 top up)

How would you go about claiming lunch expenses given that individual purchases are not recorded anywhere? Receipts are not available.

Can I just claim monthly for the "top-up" amount (i.e. £50 as recorded on my credit card statement) up to the value of the HMRC approved expenses amounts?

Any advice most welcome.

Thanks
B.

I thought this wasn't permitted, ie Hector says you would eat lunch anyway and can only expense a meal if staying overnight? Or have I missed something?

qh

[LondonManc]

So when you're working, you save money... they should tax you on that!

What are you on about?

[NotAllThere]

Don't tell MF whatever you do! He'll have more expenses than his day rate.

I've generally not claimed meals while staying away as I'd be eating anyway. Getting a sandwich from the local sandwich shop near home is no different to getting one from a sandwich shop in London (barring the lack of San Pellegrino in the local sandwich shop).

So when you're working, you save money... they should tax you on that!

[astonishingxp]

Thanks for the advice everyone, wasn't sure about the whole cashless implications but you've confirmed my hunch regarding IR35 and being a temporary workplace on-site facility only. Also, to confirm for LondonManc and chopper visitors/service staff also get temporary cashless cards with £4 pre-loaded on them.

Cheers everyone set my mind at ease.
B.

[LondonManc]

IR35 implication if the canteen is staff only ;-)

Yeah, I know. That's why I said that it was cashless whoever you are, so there are no implications.

[chopper]

If it's anything like the one I'm currently using at client site (and the one at Sky) you can buy visitor cards for a £2 deposit and get it back. All tills are completely cashless, as are vending machines. You simply cannot use cash so there's no IR35 implications for anyone.

IR35 implication if the canteen is staff only ;-)

[LondonManc]

How do irregular visitors (e.g. salesdroids, electricians, etc) pay for stuff in the canteen? Or is it a staff only facility? IR35 risk, using a permie facility?

If it's anything like the one I'm currently using at client site (and the one at Sky) you can buy visitor cards for a £2 deposit and get it back. All tills are completely cashless, as are vending machines. You simply cannot use cash so there's no IR35 implications for anyone.

[chopper]

How do irregular visitors (e.g. salesdroids, electricians, etc) pay for stuff in the canteen? Or is it a staff only facility? IR35 risk, using a permie facility?

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

That's the quick and most sensible way to go but what about if they buy coffee, odd snack and stuff you wouldn't normally put through the company?

There's no specific restriction on what you can and cannot claim as subsistence whilst on business travel or working at a temporary workplace. Strictly speaking any necessary subsistence taken while on business is allowable.

Common sense rule would be not to take the mickey but if you're just expensing the top up payments and they can only be used on site then I wouldn't worry about it.

[LondonManc]

If it's all within the 'reasonable' allowance for working at a temporary location, then it should all still go through.

HMRC's benchmark scale rates are:

Min journey time 5 hours: £5
Min journey time 10 hours: £10

But there are no 'authorised subsistence rates for general application'. There is no restriction on how many times you can eat/snack in the day...

Don't tell MF whatever you do! He'll have more expenses than his day rate.

I've generally not claimed meals while staying away as I'd be eating anyway. Getting a sandwich from the local sandwich shop near home is no different to getting one from a sandwich shop in London (barring the lack of San Pellegrino in the local sandwich shop).