Reply to: Can someone please clarify rules around subsistence - meal allowance

[cojak]

Right - I getting well miffed about this now - this thread has gone well off-topic and the OP has PMed apologising for the flame war.

I'm locking this thread and if I see anyone taking the thread off-track I will ban both parties.

I hope I make myself clear.

Edit: And don't you look so smug psychocandy - I've noticed you trolling, and if you keep at it your ban will be substantially longer than the others.

[psychocandy]

Nice in put bro. Have another beer.

P.s. You know that ignore advice you just gave me?? .........

Aw have a cwtch NLUK

You never put me on ignore. Im filling up here...

[northernladuk]

Contractoruk wolfpack

But I made the point there would be a pack whatever forum you are on. The problem would be with the poster inciting the ire of his peers so you are thinking about it the wrong way. Maybe the fact a pack appears is because what the OP has said offends/upsets/disagrees with most of the other posters. So to answer their question the poster needs to think about themselves and what they are saying rather than blaming the pack which are only acting in reaction..... but I know you can't think like that.

[northernladuk]

Merely pointing out that a lot of what us contractors do would be deemed a pisstake by a large proportion of the population. Not correctly in my opinon but I dont understand why being able to claim JSA is so bad....

It isn't. To brag about it and bang on about it for 3 years however....

[psychocandy]

Are you sure you are not confusing that with peer mentality PC?

Anyway, as FML says it's tedious. I pointed out an answer to a comment as to why you don't get it, not to have another protracted discussion.

Contractoruk wolfpack

[psychocandy]

You are now talking about opinion of a party that is not relevant in the discussion. What does that prove. You go out to anyone in the public and tell them what we charge and they will think it's a pisstake as well but they don't know **** all so it's irrelevant. We don't care what the permies think and I'm not so sure why their opinion even factors in this discussion.

Merely pointing out that a lot of what us contractors do would be deemed a pisstake by a large proportion of the population. Not correctly in my opinon but I dont understand why being able to claim JSA is so bad....

[northernladuk]

Its the pack mentality NLUK. Lots of posters on this forum like to be part of the pack and will agree with whatever some of the good ole boys of the forum say.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion about it. Never said that. As I've said many times, I dont care if others claim or not.

What is not on is when newbies ask they get told no no you can't do it its wrong. THIS IS AN OPINION. As is the opinion that its ok to claim expenses, pay small salary etc (which I agree with btw).

Can't we at least deal with facts for JSA claims? i.e. You may be able to legally do so but look into it yourself rather than listen to opinions on the morals of it.

Are you sure you are not confusing that with peer mentality PC?

Anyway, as FML says it's tedious. I pointed out an answer to a comment as to why you don't get it, not to have another protracted discussion.

[psychocandy]

Also while you're there explain to the permie next to you that:

1. If you don't work you don't get paid (no holiday pay), and that includes Bank Holidays.
2. If you're off sick you don't get paid (no sick pay).
3. If you went off on Maternity leave (if applicable!) you would get only SMP and nothing for Paternity pay.
4. You fund your own pension, life insurance, critical illness cover without anyone else contributing.
5. You have to pay for items like Business Insurances, IR35 cover, contract reviews, xmas do etc.

All this (and more) comes out of your day rate, I don't contract just for the financial benefits, its the flexibility and technical challenges that are the main motivation.

Exactly. And I agree with you. This is the flip side of course.

A lot of permies when presented with these facts even after you give then some idea of contract rates will then change their mind about it seeming such a cushy number.

[northernladuk]

It really is getting quite tiring seeing YOU specifically constantly ragging on about this. How about you put him on ignore and get on with your life instead of posting crap like this in the professional forums?

Really, take a good look at yourself, get a life, and stick to asking people if they have an accountant.

Nice in put bro. Have another beer.

P.s. You know that ignore advice you just gave me?? .........

[psychocandy]

Go on to any forum on any topic and be the one person that takes a rather immoral stance or the gutter end of whatever that forum represents and you'll find yourself vilified. Go on to Mumsnet and put 'Nowt wrong with a good smoke and drink when pregnant' in your sig and see how welcome you are. Go on the coppers forums and boast you know all the best spots to go for a kip when you are on night duty and see the result.

You claim it's law which is fair enough but even if it's allowed some groups find it distasteful and you'll get stick about it. Best way in these instances is just to shut the **** up and keep your business to yourself.

What I find staggering after all the years of people mentioning it, and its a lot more than just me over the years, you still don't get it. That said you say you mention it to get a rise which is the definition of trolling but you can't see you are doing that either.

Its the pack mentality NLUK. Lots of posters on this forum like to be part of the pack and will agree with whatever some of the good ole boys of the forum say.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion about it. Never said that. As I've said many times, I dont care if others claim or not.

What is not on is when newbies ask they get told no no you can't do it its wrong. THIS IS AN OPINION. As is the opinion that its ok to claim expenses, pay small salary etc (which I agree with btw).

Can't we at least deal with facts for JSA claims? i.e. You may be able to legally do so but look into it yourself rather than listen to opinions on the morals of it.

[Forgotmylogin]

Snip

It really is getting quite tiring seeing YOU specifically constantly ragging on about this. How about you put him on ignore and get on with your life instead of posting crap like this in the professional forums?

Really, take a good look at yourself, get a life, and stick to asking people if they have an accountant.

[northernladuk]

If you turned around and spoke to the permie next to you and explained that you can:-

1) Claim back 45p a mile for driving to work against tax and he can't
2) Claim for your lunch against tax and he can't
3) Pay yourself small salary and dividends and pay no NI at all and he can't.
4) Split your income with your Mrs to avoid paying 40% tax and he can't
5) Claim JSA when you're out of contract but you knew that was coming anyway.

All 5 I can predict would be deemed a pisstake by said permies. Yes even the JSA one - in their mind how can you claim JSA when you've agreed to temporary work. A fair point.

You are now talking about opinion of a party that is not relevant in the discussion. What does that prove. You go out to anyone in the public and tell them what we charge and they will think it's a pisstake as well but they don't know **** all so it's irrelevant. We don't care what the permies think and I'm not so sure why their opinion even factors in this discussion.

[SlipTheJab]

If you turned around and spoke to the permie next to you and explained that you can:-

1) Claim back 45p a mile for driving to work against tax and he can't
2) Claim for your lunch against tax and he can't
3) Pay yourself small salary and dividends and pay no NI at all and he can't.
4) Split your income with your Mrs to avoid paying 40% tax and he can't
5) Claim JSA when you're out of contract but you knew that was coming anyway.

All 5 I can predict would be deemed a pisstake by said permies. Yes even the JSA one - in their mind how can you claim JSA when you've agreed to temporary work. A fair point.

Also while you're there explain to the permie next to you that:

1. If you don't work you don't get paid (no holiday pay), and that includes Bank Holidays.
2. If you're off sick you don't get paid (no sick pay).
3. If you went off on Maternity leave (if applicable!) you would get only SMP and nothing for Paternity pay.
4. You fund your own pension, life insurance, critical illness cover without anyone else contributing.
5. You have to pay for items like Business Insurances, IR35 cover, contract reviews, xmas do etc.

All this (and more) comes out of your day rate, I don't contract just for the financial benefits, its the flexibility and technical challenges that are the main motivation.

[northernladuk]

I must admit I dunno why this upsets so many people....

Go on to any forum on any topic and be the one person that takes a rather immoral stance or the gutter end of whatever that forum represents and you'll find yourself vilified. Go on to Mumsnet and put 'Nowt wrong with a good smoke and drink when pregnant' in your sig and see how welcome you are. Go on the coppers forums and boast you know all the best spots to go for a kip when you are on night duty and see the result.

You claim it's law which is fair enough but even if it's allowed some groups find it distasteful and you'll get stick about it. Best way in these instances is just to shut the **** up and keep your business to yourself.

What I find staggering after all the years of people mentioning it, and its a lot more than just me over the years, you still don't get it. That said you say you mention it to get a rise which is the definition of trolling but you can't see you are doing that either.

[psychocandy]

Most people who start small businesses don't pay themselves a regular salary, pay a small one when they can do so and do this again when business gets hard. You obviously being a BOS contractor don't realise this.

Here we go again with the old - Im the best contractor in the world and no-one does it as proper as me! :-)