Reply to: Expenses and Digital Nomads

[Maslins]

I guess there is the argument you could work Asia times from home. I've worked Middle East times and Florida times from home for a few weeks during a roll out.

From skim reading all the above, this would be my view. By your own admission you want to travel around there, so as an absolute minimum there's duality of purpose, in which case not wholly and exclusively for the benefit of the trade.

[SueEllen]

We need the full picture to give a correct response IMHO.

We have the full picture.

The OP wants to expense his trip to Asia.

As he is not going there wholly and exclusively for business reasons he can't but he's refusing to understand that because we aren't giving him the answer he wants.

Even if he pops into his client's office for a few days the fact he can work remotely means he can spend the rest of his time in the UK working from his bedroom in his parents' house.

[WTFH]

Question... is this thread related to the other one...
http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...code-asia.html
where you said the client wanted you to work 2 weeks UK, 2 months in the Singapore office?


Or is it a different client?
Or is it a different contract?

[northernladuk]

Calling yourself a nomad means you roam from place to place so each would become your permanent place of work so no expenses

[Pondlife]

My client says I need to support their office in mainland Europe. I don't (for some reason) have to visit their office in France so I can work from anywhere that allows euro timezone support.

Can I claim hotel costs in Ibiza and Geneva?

Since according to your posts you're not actually required to visit client co's sites, there's no need for you to be (wholly and exclusively) physically in Asia, is there?

We need the full picture to give a correct response IMHO.

[WTFH]

Reckon we're veering off topic, just for the sake of argument assume they need me in this region of the world as I've said.
In this respect, I am withholding information because it's my client and I don't want to discuss the ins and outs of the negotiations, arrangements and their internal communication publicly. For the sake of argument and so that this thread might have a hint of usefulness to others, please make this assumption.

'What's does the contract say' is the phrase most-oft used here and that's what I'm using and my contract says remote.
My contract does have a UK site address but only because it stipulated that the first few weeks of the contract had to be done in the UK for me to settle into the work. From there it says remote.

The only one veering off topic is you!


To make the thread useful, we need less assumptions, less avoidance and less editing in your answers.


Earlier you said the contract stated that you had to be in Asia. Now you've edited a couple of posts to say the contract doesn't say that. Problem is that your edits make the thread less useful to anyone.
You've now changed your tune from saying the contract stated Asia to saying the contract states a UK address.


If their contract states the UK, then no, you can't claim any hotel expenses unless the client asks you to go to a specific location which relates to the contract work you are doing. If they request it, then you should be charging them for flights and accommodation.

[northernladuk]

If it just says remote, with no specific location, I'd say being in asia is entirely your choice, therefore not a valid business expense.

I guess there is the argument you could work Asia times from home. I've worked Middle East times and Florida times from home for a few weeks during a roll out.

[FrontEnder]

Reckon we're veering off topic, just for the sake of argument assume they need me in this region of the world as I've said.
In this respect, I am withholding information because it's my client and I don't want to discuss the ins and outs of the negotiations, arrangements and their internal communication publicly. For the sake of argument and so that this thread might have a hint of usefulness to others, please make this assumption.

'What's does the contract say' is the phrase most-oft used here and that's what I'm using and my contract says remote.
My contract does have a UK site address but only because it stipulated that the first few weeks of the contract had to be done in the UK for me to settle into the work. From there it says remote.

If it just says remote, with no specific location, I'd say being in asia is entirely your choice, therefore not a valid business expense.

[northernladuk]

As I said. I think the issue here is one of temporary or permanent location.

[RunlevelC]

Reckon we're veering off topic, just for the sake of argument assume they need me in this region of the world as I've said.
In this respect, I am withholding information because it's my client and I don't want to discuss the ins and outs of the negotiations, arrangements and their internal communication publicly. For the sake of argument and so that this thread might have a hint of usefulness to others, please make this assumption.

'What's does the contract say' is the phrase most-oft used here and that's what I'm using and my contract says remote.
My contract does have a UK site address but only because it stipulated that the first few weeks of the contract had to be done in the UK for me to settle into the work. From there it says remote.

[FrontEnder]

There is a longer reason internal to the company, they screwed up a little bit - but what matters is on my contract. The client's motivations are neither my problem nor the point of this thread.

Well, yes it is your problem.

In the event of a hmrc audit, you'll need to justify why you're staying half way round the world and claiming it as a business expense.

I'm not sure a client requirement that you work in a different continent, not even a specific country, let alone town/city works.

During this time, you'll be working remotely (presumably from the hotel you're trying get to expense) and basically backpacking across asia, living where you please, not where the client needs you.

I think HMRC would take a very dim view of claiming any expenses in this scenario, especially as you vould probably do this from your home or office but with different hours.

[WTFH]

The client's motivations are neither my problem nor the point of this thread.

Incorrect on two points:
1. The client's request for you to be based in a location should be part of your contract negotiation, as such it is very much something you should be concerned about
2. You are deliberately misleading/withholding facts from us that could affect the advice we give.

So, on your contract with the client, what address do they give as being the main office you will be working from?
It is VERY ODD for a client, of their own choice, to specify a vague area for base. Was it entirely their own choice, or did you maybe hint it to them?
Have they defined "Asia" or specified the time zone?
Given that Asia is part of a land mass known as Eurasia, you could base yourself in Portugal on Norway and still be on the same continent.

[RunlevelC]

What answer are you wanting us to give you?

As others have said, but you don't like the answer:
You cannot expense personal accommodation.

This is what I think I'm missing. If I have permanent residency in the UK, how are hotels away from home as a result of client request a personal expense?

[northernladuk]

I see what the OP is saying so the only questionable point is his home location. I can see the OP believe his parents is his home so he believes the stay over while he is there is justified.

I'd be very nervous about his parents being his home though. I'd be interested in the detail of how much time the OP actually spends there. If it's his base because he's got nowhere else but he tends to get gigs and stay away you can imagine there is a challenge there.

Devil is in the details and even that's if there is an appetite to look in to it.

I think this situation is going to get more and more popular so IMO at some point it's going to get challenged.

[Crossroads]

Not seen it mentioned, but isn't the issue here that by moving around for personal reasons then the trip is no longer wholly and exclusively for the business, and therefore none of it can be claimed? Simple as that is it not?