Reply to: Redstone reincarnated ?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

the naivety and gullibility that often stems from greed

Without this, our capitalist/consumerist economy would collapse.

I live a very modest life these days but I'm eternally grateful to the greedy, indebted, majority for keeping the plates spinning.

[fool]

Not believing sales patter, due diligence and a bit of googling will bring up a lot of what people need to know.

We understand ordinary permies not to be aware as they have this stuff done for them, but the naivety and gullibility that often stems from greed, from people who are supposed to be intelligent self-reliant self-employed never ceases to depress us.

I understand that but one should also understand that this the majority of those taken in by this, like myself, were recently permies and simply don't know better.

Either way, falling for this crap in 2008 isn't much different from falling for it in 2016.

[cojak]

I suspect most of the folks who sign up to these schemes are newbies and while we should be educating them we don't need to be so derogatory about it.

• My first contract was with a standard umbrella who I didn't have a great experience with.
• My second with my with the current Ltd. I didn't have a great experience as I registered the company at my home over the border but had since migrated south with no set address.
• Third contract with was a scheme as I met a guy who'd told me there was an easier legit way to earn about the same.

Obviously I'm a bit of a gullible idiot but I'd did the math, realised I'd come out about even with a ton of less effort, fell for the sales patter and signed up and went about my business. Only really being half an idiot I've signed up here and started reading and realised I'm not on amazing ground and went back to using my Ltd.

If I could go back I'd have used the Ltd from the start, but a fool I am and I did what I did. The main difference between me and you guys who used schemes in 2008 is I started contracting in like 2013.

Not believing sales patter, due diligence and a bit of googling will bring up a lot of what people need to know.

We understand ordinary permies not to be aware as they have this stuff done for them, but the naivety and gullibility that often stems from greed, from people who are supposed to be intelligent self-reliant self-employed never ceases to depress us.

[fool]

I suspect most of the folks who sign up to these schemes are newbies and while we should be educating them we don't need to be so derogatory about it.

• My first contract was with a standard umbrella who I didn't have a great experience with.
• My second with my with the current Ltd. I didn't have a great experience as I registered the company at my home over the border but had since migrated south with no set address.
• Third contract with was a scheme as I met a guy who'd told me there was an easier legit way to earn about the same.

Obviously I'm a bit of a gullible idiot but I'd did the math, realised I'd come out about even with a ton of less effort, fell for the sales patter and signed up and went about my business. Only really being half an idiot I've signed up here and started reading and realised I'm not on amazing ground and went back to using my Ltd.

If I could go back I'd have used the Ltd from the start, but a fool I am and I did what I did. The main difference between me and you guys who used schemes in 2008 is I started contracting in like 2013.

[flamel]

Maybe I'm being harsh, but when did we lose our ability to think? In any walk of life, if something is to good to be true it usually is. In some situations it may be fine\not disastrous, but playing with fire concerning tax, come on??

Yes agreed - but it hasn't always been the case that the forces of hell have been unleashed on you as a contractor, led by Overlord Gideon with the worm Gauke. Under the stress of attack, people make illogical decisions and ignore the consequences.

[Fred Bloggs]

One thing that concerns me, is that some top tier recruitment websitesare now running prominent banner ads pushing compliant 90% schemes. I have emailed a couple of them voicing concerns about reputation and duty of care etc but none replied. It gives the schemes an air of respectability they do not deserve.

[gables]

Fair point. I was alluding to existing contractors moving because of the Dividend tax but agree that these schemes also prey on newbies.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but when did we lose our ability to think? In any walk of life, if something is to good to be true it usually is. In some situations it may be fine\not disastrous, but playing with fire concerning tax, come on??

[SlipTheJab]

Yes I agree for the experienced ones. But there will still be up and coming newbies who are unaware of these current issues. I can remember going into to these schemes blind and wasnt even aware of IR35 issues until at least 2008.

Fair point. I was alluding to existing contractors moving because of the Dividend tax but agree that these schemes also prey on newbies.

[horrada]

Do you think that anyone signing up to a loan scheme like this now deserves any sympathy? I explicitly stated the date as I am not talking about people who signed up to schemes years ago when the landscape was very different and retrospective legislation was unheard of.

Yes I agree for the experienced ones. But there will still be up and coming newbies who are unaware of these current issues. I can remember going into to these schemes blind and wasnt even aware of IR35 issues until at least 2008.

[SlipTheJab]

He might have been a tad irritated by the judgemental tone of your previous post.

Jeez...

[DotasScandal]

Do you think that anyone signing up to a loan scheme like this now deserves any sympathy? I explicitly stated the date as I am not talking about people who signed up to schemes years ago when the landscape was very different and retrospective legislation was unheard of.

He might have been a tad irritated by the judgemental tone of your previous post.

[john@UKCA]

Tax Schemes

HMRC issues Spotlight 29 in its series about schemes which it believes don’t work

The most recent Spotlight Don't fall for it - misleading claims made by tax avoidance scheme promoters is more generic and not about a particular scheme.

It sets out a long list of claims you need to be wary about when approached about a particular tax avoidance scheme. This list is reproduced below:

these arrangements fall outside the scope of tax avoidance
the scheme is not disclosable to HMRC and leading Tax Counsel (QC) have agreed this
the scheme has been disclosed and therefore you cannot be penalised
we have been offering these schemes for years and have not been challenged
you can receive tax-free payments that are compliant with tax law
we have won all previous court cases in relation to these arrangements
HMRC will write you a few letters and then give up and go away
the arrangements are recognised by HMRC as not an avoidance scheme
we have a successful track record of implementation
leading Tax Counsel have advised that the arrangements are legal and work
penalties can’t be applied as you have relied on advice of Tax Counsel
you can earn more and mitigate tax and do so using tax efficient structures fully compliant with the law
the product is low risk
you’re fully insured against any defeat
HMRC has approved the scheme - they’ve given it a reference number

HMRC has also published Ten things a promoter of tax avoidance schemes won’t always tell you which are that:

1. Most schemes don’t work
2. It could cost you more than you bargained for
3. You may have significant legal fees to pay
4. You could face criminal conviction
5. You could face publicity as a tax avoider
6. Your scheme is never HMRC approved
7. You could be marked out as a high-risk taxpayer
8. HMRC is likely to beat your scheme in court
9. The risk is normally all your own
10. You’ll have to pay the tax up front anyway

[SlipTheJab]

Deserve what they get.
People like you P me off.

Do you think that anyone signing up to a loan scheme like this now deserves any sympathy? I explicitly stated the date as I am not talking about people who signed up to schemes years ago when the landscape was very different and retrospective legislation was unheard of.

[SueEllen]

Deserve what they get.
People like you P me off.

Expand?

On here we warn people again and again if something is too good to be true it is, especially in terms of dealing with HMRC.

[horrada]

Any contractors that do post April 2016 quite frankly deserve what they get, only a madman or a fool would go down that route in the current climate.

Deserve what they get.
People like you P me off.