Reply to: Verbal contract extension - Does it hold?

[eek]

When one side has the money and the other side does not, there’s usually an imbalance of power. The agent knows this and always sides with the client.

It's not about money - a client can always give more work to an agent, a contractor won't (or only incredibly rarely) bring work to that agent.

[LondonManc]

When one side has the money and the other side does not, there’s usually an imbalance of power. The agent knows this and always sides with the client.

[Old Greg]

There is that but.... in theory there is a good chance this would come back and bite you if it went legal. Once in a contract there are certain obligations to do the work if it's offered with pay. Being off and terminating contract while you are off is a pretty thinly veiled excuse to get out of the contact, usually meaning the client loses out. The courts love siding with parties that lose out so you'll be on a wish and a prayer defending that one, particularly if you've started the new gig in the period you were still in contract or, or very soon after.

But that's just theory... Question is.. Do you feel lucky punk?

I've never seen that in my contracts. If I'm not available for work, I don't work. If there's no work available, then MyCo doesn't get paid. If you really want to be arsey:

1. Tell them you're unavailable for the next 30 days
2. Give 30 days notice
3. Insist on sending in a Sub for the notice period
4. Graciously agree to call it quits when they try to stop you sending a Sub.

It's not how I do business, but contractually, I reckon you'd get away with it. Does anyone really lose in court in these circumstances?

[northernladuk]

You make it sounds as if MOO is only one way, I know it’s opening a world of hurt if you do this to a client, but technically there’s nothing stopping you refusing to take on more work even if midway through a contract. Or doing a NWP2C if you will

Yep and that's the reality of the situation to counter my theory. I just though i'd spell out what is possible to the poster as they are struggling to grasp the situation. They've got both sides and hopefully a clearer understanding of what could happen so he can weigh it up if they are ever in that situation. IMO, to advise someone in his position that just walking is fine isnt great (or at least full) advice if you see what I mean.

[SimonMac]

There is that but.... in theory there is a good chance this would come back and bite you if it went legal. Once in a contract there are certain obligations to do the work if it's offered with pay. Being off and terminating contract while you are off is a pretty thinly veiled excuse to get out of the contact, usually meaning the client loses out. The courts love siding with parties that lose out so you'll be on a wish and a prayer defending that one, particularly if you've started the new gig in the period you were still in contract or, or very soon after.

But that's just theory... Question is.. Do you feel lucky punk?

You make it sounds as if MOO is only one way, I know it’s opening a world of hurt if you do this to a client, but technically there’s nothing stopping you refusing to take on more work even if midway through a contract. Or doing a NWP2C if you will

[northernladuk]

Or you tell the client you are not available for the next x days and give notice to terminate the contract.

There is that but.... in theory there is a good chance this would come back and bite you if it went legal. Once in a contract there are certain obligations to do the work if it's offered with pay. Being off and terminating contract while you are off is a pretty thinly veiled excuse to get out of the contact, usually meaning the client loses out. The courts love siding with parties that lose out so you'll be on a wish and a prayer defending that one, particularly if you've started the new gig in the period you were still in contract or, or very soon after.

But that's just theory... Question is.. Do you feel lucky punk?

[Old Greg]

Does this mean that the contractor can also stop the assignment from one day to another, and step out of the contract with no notice at all?

No. They can give you three months notice of contract termination, but say - we're not giving you any more work. You have to work out your notice.

Or you tell the client you are not available for the next x days and give notice to terminate the contract.

[NotAllThere]

Does this mean that the contractor can also stop the assignment from one day to another, and step out of the contract with no notice at all?

No. They can give you three months notice of contract termination, but say - we're not giving you any more work. You have to work out your notice.

[northernladuk]

Does this mean that the contractor can also stop the assignment from one day to another, and step out of the contract with no notice at all?

No. It's explained in the post you just responded to. There is a difference between ending the contract and just not being paid as there is no work (which is in the contract). The contract is still in force even if the contractor isn't getting paid.

No work = no pay and the contract then naturally expires on the date it says. You won't get paid another penny during the duration of the contract....so from the contractors perspective the contract has ended when it hasn't really. A contractor just not coming in is clear breach.

[Catafracta]

Notice period/severance clause is a precise thing laid out in a contract.
Do not confuse notice period with an obligation to pay you anything. Most larger places will have you work your notice but smaller places typically make up some excuse to get you offsite (typically you'll get 10-15 minutes to complete your timesheets and clear you desk). Not a hard and fast rule but their the most common. If you're reporting in to the CEO or equivalent then your most likely in the second category. Suck it up and move on; I'd imagine it's happened to a significant percentage of long term contractors at some point.



FTFY, too tempting.

Does this mean that the contractor can also stop the assignment from one day to another, and step out of the contract with no notice at all?

[LondonManc]

Notice period/severance clause is a precise thing laid out in a contract.
Do not confuse notice period with an obligation to pay you anything. Most larger places will have you work your notice but smaller places typically make up some excuse to get you offsite (typically you'll get 10-15 minutes to complete your timesheets and clear you desk). Not a hard and fast rule but their the most common. If you're reporting in to the CEO or equivalent then your most likely in the second category. Suck it up and move on; I'd imagine it's happened to a significant percentage of long term contractors at some point.

But Mark.... that's NOT the droids he was looking for....

FTFY, too tempting.

[moneymoney]

ignoring the mockery from the rest, there are some important lessons here for you

1. anything to do with your contract (rate/terms/extensions), you have to get it in writing, never presume verbal will be ok or that a good relationship with the client means you don't need to formalise it, you do, every time
2. don't work without a written contract that has been signed. Again while you might have a good relationship with the client and you worked that first week of the extension, you now have no legal standing as you shouldn't have been there. It sounds risky to annoy the client by simply saying "i'm not turning up tomorrow" but sometimes that's the quickest way to get them to sort it out

you can try and get paid for the days worked, but I'd be surprised if you got anything for the "notice period", as others have said, you only get paid for time worked

[MrMarkyMark]

And its not very constructive either

Funny.....I thought it was....I was thinking of the OP's mental well being, continuing to believe he has a chance with this may set him back

[SlipTheJab]

But Mark.... that's NOT the answer he was looking for....

And its not very constructive either

[SlipTheJab]

Thanks for your comments - looks like you've all agreed that I have a strong case, and should take it all the way. Exactly what I wanted to read..

Seriously though - agreed about t&m, or lack of, however I have worked a few days within the new contract and can justify some more with various materials (docs, plans, etc). I don't think I *need* to but I can if required.

I'm also well aware of the relationship challenge in terms of agency\client. Would have to thread carefully and try to get a compromise as suggested. Furthermore, as the new verbal contract went into effect when the new term started, I think there's a possibility that the notice becomes valid.

This is not how I wanted the contract to end, and as such think that I should pursue an amicable agreement, but am ready to move on if it doesn't.

And lastly @slipthejab - a small piece of advice *free of charge*... If you've got nothing constructive to add, move on. no need for personal mockery.

You're new to CUK right