Reply to: PSC definition

[SlipTheJab]

At those figures I'd probably agree... but IMHO most £400/day contractors won't get an £80k perm role.

Out of interest, where is "local" and what are the roles? (No I'm not likely to be after one, just curious).

In all fairness most of the roles I get are closer to 60k only had one 80k plus role, did think twice b4 deciding to carry on contracting:-)

[mudskipper]

So, the definition of PSC? Any help on that one? As i said, im a single director in my LTD company, but i do fully ensure my contracts are outside of IR35, hence SDC is not implied. Do we now assume that if you are outside of IR35, than you are not considered a PSC, or will the majority of us fall into this category?

There isn't one - it's deliberately vague. Quite a good summary here.

A Guide To Personal Service Companies for IT contractors :: Contractor UK

[northernladuk]

It is premature. Let your accountant get their head around it and then ask them what they'll suggest.

[blackstreet]

sorry - guess i was being a bit premature about this, but being hit on so many fronts had me a little dizzy.

So, the definition of PSC? Any help on that one? As i said, im a single director in my LTD company, but i do fully ensure my contracts are outside of IR35, hence SDC is not implied. Do we now assume that if you are outside of IR35, than you are not considered a PSC, or will the majority of us fall into this category?

For me, i travel a fair bit into london, and i live outside of there, so the costs to travel in regularly is high, so loosing that as an expense line is a big deal in the scheme of things.

as to the other aspects of the budget.

im thinking the following

1. Add spouse as employee and hence be exempt from the loss of the NICs employee allowance. She does a fair bit of work for me anyways, but as she is a higher rate tax payer, i never decided to employ her. I will now.
2. Add spouse as shareholder (different share class). As mentioned she is higher rate payer, so i didn't bother, but now as you get a £5k allowance regardless of personal tax bracket. That will help offset some of the dividend tax at 7.5% loss.

The above will help, but its the travel and subsistence element im struggling with.

thanks for your help

[PerfectStorm]

As I can earn at least double an equivalent permie salary as a contractor the taxman will have to do a lot to make me switch back. Still irritating though.
I do wonder why someone would take the risk of contracting if an extra few grand in tax makes them consider switching back.

Exactly. As I've said elsewhere they must be on laughably tulip contracts or, I suspect, being a bit greedy.

We have a good life now, we'll have a good life after. Keep your head down and keep invoicing and pat yourself on the back for helping those less fortunate

[Bozwell]

As I can earn at least double an equivalent permie salary as a contractor the taxman will have to do a lot to make me switch back. Still irritating though.
I do wonder why someone would take the risk of contracting if an extra few grand in tax makes them consider switching back.

[PerfectStorm]

Hopefully, as mentioned in another thread, this will scare all those that see contracting as more cash than permies to go scurrying back to perm and leave those that enjoy this model to get on with it

Disagree - it is more cash than permies, primarily as more of the cash is yours to do as you please rather than paying for sick, maternity, holidays, benefits etc

[eek]

For those who purely went contracting for the cash, live on monthly dividends and have little knowledge of any of the responsibilities of running a business, nor understand anything much about IR35 or anything else I imagine that the budget will be a big sharp stick that might prod them back to their perm roles and 360 reviews.

I first contracted in 2002 and actually took a drop in income to do so... luckily this didn't last long and I have done pretty well so far all things considered.

I went perm early 2014 with an old client for very good money but by the end of the year realised that it wasn't the model for me. HR, miscalculated bonuses, projects I don't want to do and so on.

We left on good terms and I went in a different direction, and this experience also helped me realise that a few k here or there in tax won't put me off what I do.

We must of course push back and not roll over, but I fear we have lost the last couple of battles already. New approaches will he found, legislation will sometimes change in our favour and if not, in the longer term rates will hopefully rise for those who are worth it and justify their rate by being an expert in their field, willing to work to meet a clients demands and be rewarded for giving up the apparent benefits of employment. "Bums on seats" contractors however might find they are happier as permies.

For me my choices are:

Contract and have the ability to pick my own clients and turn down people I don't want to work for.

Go permie and spend my life travelling on projects given to me rather than ones I pick...

[Crossroads]

100k a yr contracting with no holiday/sick/training/pension/benefits or 80k perm, it's looking like a no brainer now...

At those figures I'd probably agree... but IMHO most £400/day contractors won't get an £80k perm role.

Out of interest, where is "local" and what are the roles? (No I'm not likely to be after one, just curious).

[Crossroads]

For those who purely went contracting for the cash, live on monthly dividends and have little knowledge of any of the responsibilities of running a business, nor understand anything much about IR35 or anything else I imagine that the budget will be a big sharp stick that might prod them back to their perm roles and 360 reviews.

I first contracted in 2002 and actually took a drop in income to do so... luckily this didn't last long and I have done pretty well so far all things considered.

I went perm early 2014 with an old client for very good money but by the end of the year realised that it wasn't the model for me. HR, miscalculated bonuses, projects I don't want to do and so on.

We left on good terms and I went in a different direction, and this experience also helped me realise that a few k here or there in tax won't put me off what I do.

We must of course push back and not roll over, but I fear we have lost the last couple of battles already. New approaches will he found, legislation will sometimes change in our favour and if not, in the longer term rates will hopefully rise for those who are worth it and justify their rate by being an expert in their field, willing to work to meet a clients demands and be rewarded for giving up the apparent benefits of employment. "Bums on seats" contractors however might find they are happier as permies.

[northernladuk]

Team

Have to say im gutted with the latest budget announcements. Makes me wonder whether i should be going back to the perm world after only 1 year as a contractor.

1 year as a contractor thinking of going back perm before you even know the score?? You ain't part of my team!!!

[Snarf]

Team

Have to say im gutted with the latest budget announcements. Makes me wonder whether i should be going back to the perm world after only 1 year as a contractor.

What im trying to understand is how we define Personal Services Company in relation to the removal of the expensing subsistence and travel. Im a LTD company, with myself as a sole director, so would i belong in this category. I was previously under the impression this would target umbrella company users, but it seems to be expanding beyond that. I am very rigid on the contracts i take to ensure i am not under SDC, but is this enough. I fear if this is removed, alongside all the other limitations, i will have to exit and go perm.

So you think that after these changes your take home will be less than if you were a permie?
If that's the case I'd love to know where these perm jobs are! We may need to change the way we operate a little and yes we will probably end up paying a bit more tax, but (for me at least) Im still paid alot more than I was as a permie.

[SlipTheJab]

No 4 month holidays with your 80k perm role though...

eer and whose paying for those 4 months? It sure isn't Gideon

[unixman]

No 4 month holidays with your 80k perm role though...

[SlipTheJab]

The permie market has gone nuts locally recently so much so that If I can get a role paying 80k+ come Feb/March next year then I am offski. This div tax is just the latest in a long line (and a line which will continue) of measures, 100k a yr contracting with no holiday/sick/training/pension/benefits or 80k perm, it's looking like a no brainer now...