Working practices

[northernladuk]

Not strictly true. A company would not be too happy if a line manager signed a document that subverted or contradicted a signed contract, hence the usual reluctance to do so.

Agreed hence my comment re finding the right person but yes I see your point. If the company is happy enough to do by mail it would suffice. That's a big if I agree.

The real problem is the possible disconnect between what the agency has contracted with you and whatever Ts&Cs they have sold their client. Some are very good about it, some - rather too many - are completely out of order. I've refused a gig before now because of a poor agency contract, then found it re-advertised elsewhere with a sensible-looking contract only to discover (in time) that the second agency are only feeding the first, meaning their views on D&C and RoS are totally unsupportable.

If we could guarantee the chain of contracts was entirely consistent, a CoA letter would be unnecessary.

Im not sure I agree with this. Surely the CoA is there to prove that the working arrangements meet the contractual terms so bridging the gap between the two. Even if you had this chain you could argue practices may not match so the CoA will always be a useful document to any defense regardless of contract chain? For example, I am sure there are many chains which are aligned around say RoS but we know most clients attitude to this on the ground. A CoA may go somewhere to proving its not a sham?

[malvolio]

I find that hard to believe. The document is just a confirmation of the situation, not a legal document. As long as you have evidence the right person has confirmed it then you have your evidence. The key here is getting the right person.

Not strictly true. A company would not be too happy if a line manager signed a document that subverted or contradicted a signed contract, hence the usual reluctance to do so.

The real problem is the possible disconnect between what the agency has contracted with you and whatever Ts&Cs they have sold their client. Some are very good about it, some - rather too many - are completely out of order. I've refused a gig before now because of a poor agency contract, then found it re-advertised elsewhere with a sensible-looking contract only to discover (in time) that the second agency are only feeding the first, meaning their views on D&C and RoS are totally unsupportable.

If we could guarantee the chain of contracts was entirely consistent, a CoA letter would be unnecessary.

[psychocandy]

I find that hard to believe. The document is just a confirmation of the situation, not a legal document. As long as you have evidence the right person has confirmed it then you have your evidence. The key here is getting the right person.

And finding someone WGAS about it.

[northernladuk]

Perhaps the fact that they have to sign it makes some jittery, if they don't understand the nature of the document. I remember reading a while ago it can simply be accepted through email instead - is this true?

I find that hard to believe. The document is just a confirmation of the situation, not a legal document. As long as you have evidence the right person has confirmed it then you have your evidence. The key here is getting the right person.

[Zero Liability]

Hmmm. I do wonder how many clients when asked this will think:-

1) WTF is this?
2) I cant be arsed with all this.

Perhaps the fact that they have to sign it makes some jittery, if they don't understand the nature of the document. I remember reading a while ago it can simply be accepted through email instead - is this true?

[PerfectStorm]

Wouldn't even try to put one of those docs in front of someone unless I thought the terms contained were so guaranteed as to make it pointless anyway

Will instead rely on the fact that I have to buy my own coffee to get me out of IR35!

[northernladuk]

All of mine

Not far off here either. Had two signed in the past but it's not the norm. Getting the right person to sign it so it will actually stand up is a challenge as well.

[Grasser73]

Hmmm. I do wonder how many clients when asked this will think:-

1) WTF is this?
2) I cant be arsed with all this.

All of mine

[Ltd]

Yes, they'll do whatever it takes to build a case. However, it's important to remember that their best case may be (very often is) crap, so the CoA may help at a later stage.

Do I understand it right that HMRC investigators have a 'traffic warden' mentality and will do whatever it takes to milk it for all its worth anyway?

[jamesbrown]

I had a CoA signed by the manager in the department I worked in, basically saying I worked on my own without any direction and control from him. HMRC just ignored it and went to the HR department to get them to answer the closed questions to confirm my guilt.

Yes, they'll do whatever it takes to build a case. However, it's important to remember that their best case may be (very often is) crap, so the CoA may help at a later stage.

[Batcher]

I had a CoA signed by the manager in the department I worked in, basically saying I worked on my own without any direction and control from him. HMRC just ignored it and went to the HR department to get them to answer the closed questions to confirm my guilt.

[psychocandy]

Hmmm. I do wonder how many clients when asked this will think:-

1) WTF is this?
2) I cant be arsed with all this.

[jamesbrown]

Another example:

http://www.bauerandcottrell.co.uk/do...nfirmation.doc

Some argue that the contract should provide sufficient detail to render a CoA moot and potentially risks a conflict between the two, but I personally think it adds colour.

Remember: 1) it needs to be signed by someone that is familiar with your working practices, not some random person from HR or procurement; and 2) to retain evidence of your working practices.

[TheFaQQer]

Qdos - http://www.qdosconsulting.com/docs/d...s.doc?sfvrsn=2

IPSE have one as well (IIRC), but I don't have the link handy and I don't know if it's available to non members.

[Ltd]

As guidance here How to deal with an HMRC IR35 letter :: Contractor UK says "Consider seeking client confirmation of the day-to-day working practices" I am thinking of getting my client to sign the working practices while still doing the contract. Where can I get a sample of working practices? What needs to be there?