Reply to: one month's notice on "gardening leave" but client refusing to pay

[FatLazyContractor]

Hi TheCyclingProgrammer and BolshieBastard (great name BTW).

It's the fact that it came via email which I find insulting; it might as well have been by text! Having worked there for ten years, I would have expected a conversation as a minimum level of professional courtesy. Don't have a problem with them blocking access etc, that's SOP, it's just comical they're using my failure to contact them after that to see if they wanted my input (when clearly the answer was "No") as a reason for rejecting the invoice. They didn't say "no work during the four weeks = no pay", they're saying that I didn't contact them (and obviously nor did they contact me).

Other contracts which have ceased have been with good grace on both sides so this is a new situation for me. The contract refers to the Centre for Dispute Resolution as a vehicle for mediation in the case of any dispute. Do you have any experience of the organisation or an equivalent service?

Cheers

From personal experience, I would suggest that you suck it up and move on. Clients are the ones with money and everything they do is "correct".

Don't take it personally. While clients can terminate a contract in a hundred different ways, a good number of them choose to do it amicably since they would like to work with good contractors in the future. That said, some could be complete a$$holes who possibly end up(in the long run) hiring bobs/outsourcing since no good-self-respecting contractor wants to work with them.

A break, holiday, Sun, Scotch .... One/all of them will help!

[administrator]

Cheers FaQQer, been too busy to respond to this but had an email with the OP yesterday as he had trouble getting the post in initially. I was of the same opinion and am surprised by the comments above. IMO it comes down to the contract, if it says 30 days notice and there is no clause about not having to provide work then the poster should pursue this according to the contract. Agree that early dialogue would have been good and would have avoided the surprise of not being paid when it was expected but the poster did say the client was a bit of a tool so can understand not wanting to have dialogue. A nice example of "It's good to talk."

[TheFaQQer]

I maintain that the actions taken by the Client to block access to email, the VPN and client systems; the fact that key clients and staff had been told of my departure, and the fact that I had been told to (and did) return the Client’s laptop and keys point firmly to the fact that our services were no longer required and this is merely an excuse to avoid paying the invoice.

Please excuse the essay (!) but I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts and suggestions about this. If you are able to provide any guidance, we'd be hugely grateful.

I think you need to take professional advice on this - if you are an IPSE member then call their legal helpline and speak to someone who can really provide the advice you need.

You'd need to have a look at the contract and check the exact wording about whether there is anything that you are actually due or not. Many "typical" contracts will have something that basically comes down to "no work, no pay" - if you are in that scenario then you will be hard pushed to get anything from the client for not doing the work. However, your situation doesn't seem to be "typical" to most CUK posters, so you might have something in the contract that gives you the right to be paid and have the contract terminated properly.

Many years back, my dad was working for a company as self-employed, with a guaranteed minimum number of days a month. Both he and his employer (pre-IR35 days, he was "freelance" back to his previous employer) let the work fizzle out, which he was quite happy with, and eventually it just stopped. Six months later, mum was doing the filing and found his contract and realised that no-one had ever terminated it - he hadn't resigned, and they hadn't terminated it. Cue an invoice for six months of "work" for the minimum number of days, coupled with a covering letter giving four weeks notice. A cheque arrived the following week for seven months non-work, and a Post-It that said "This is probably the easiest £x you've ever earned!"

So it does happen, if your contract is in your favour. Take decent advice, and see where you stand before you go too far.

[d000hg]

Sorry to ask the obvious but once you had received the email why didn't you call them or call in and have a sensible discussion with them?

WHS. The fact you feel they were unprofessional doesn't affect anything but your feelings... but if you as a result never even contacted them back then why would you expect to be paid? Even if you were upset, phoning them back once you'd cooled off would be the normal thing to do.

But read your contract. It can't be that hard. Look for a clause that says something like "client is under no responsibility to provide work to the contractor" or something.

[jmo21]

There was no verbal communication whatsoever, just the one termination email. That same day, several things happened:

1 our access to the client’s VPN was blocked
2 our client email account was blocked from receiving or sending email via the Client’s Exchange server, stopping us from contacting the key accounts we had been looking after
3 our access to client databases was blocked so I was unable to continue with the work I had been doing that morning, even if I had wanted to

Good job they did, you tried to access them! Maybe 2 was pop auto connecting?

There are basically two diametrically opposed lines of thought about this.

1 - the typical monthly invoice value sets a precedent (comment from a contractor I know) and the notice period of one month should be for a broadly equivalent figure as the Client didn't let me work it.

2 - the notice period is worthless, and because I didn't work that month, the former Client shouldn't be paying anything.

No..... You have 1 friend saying the first thing, and everyone else here saying the other.

As some have said, unless your contract states guaranteed payment (like footballers or CEO's have), then it's {pick whatever large numberbyou like}% likely no work, no pay.

And yes it would have been nice to have ended it nicely with a chat, but it's business. They'll have their reasons, don't get hung up on it.

Edit: that precedent comment might be one of the daftest things I've read on here

[SueEllen]

<snip>
It's the fact that it came via email which I find insulting; it might as well have been by text! Having worked there for ten years, I would have expected a conversation as a minimum level of professional courtesy. <snip>

Does your contract state that noticed had to be given by post? Or just state that you were to be given "written notice"?

If it was the latter than sending an email is the modern polite way to conduct business communication. Yes they could send you notice by text but they would risk you ridiculing them if their clients' got in touch with you and so would lose business.

As stated by tractor why didn't you ring them?

BTW I had a client who had an issue with a couple of their suppliers. Their trick to get rid of them was getting the work of them 3 months earlier, giving them their one month's notice and then giving them no work for that last month.

[tractor]

...

Hi TheCyclingProgrammer and BolshieBastard (great name BTW).

It's the fact that it came via email which I find insulting; it might as well have been by text! Having worked there for ten years, I would have expected a conversation as a minimum level of professional courtesy. Don't have a problem with them blocking access etc, that's SOP, it's just comical they're using my failure to contact them after that to see if they wanted my input (when clearly the answer was "No") as a reason for rejecting the invoice. They didn't say "no work during the four weeks = no pay", they're saying that I didn't contact them (and obviously nor did they contact me).

Other contracts which have ceased have been with good grace on both sides so this is a new situation for me. The contract refers to the Centre for Dispute Resolution as a vehicle for mediation in the case of any dispute. Do you have any experience of the organisation or an equivalent service?

Cheers

Sorry to ask the obvious but once you had received the email why didn't you call them or call in and have a sensible discussion with them?

[tarbera]

1 - the typical monthly invoice value sets a precedent (comment from a contractor I know) and the notice period of one month should be for a broadly equivalent figure as the Client didn't let me work


Clearly complete nonsense but did make me smile

Did you ever take 4 weeks holiday in the past 10 years - did you invoice the client ?

[northernladuk]

I'm not sure why you're taking that personally; it was unlikely to be anything to do with trust but more to do with strict company policy and insurances. They can't let people have access to their systems if they are no longer authorised to do so.

Absolutely. They put permies on gardening leave before their contracts end to keep them away from data so hardly surprising they will cut a supplier off immediately. Just due diligence really. Nothing to take personally.

[helpneededplease]

feedback to your posts

Hi TheCyclingProgrammer and BolshieBastard (great name BTW).

It's the fact that it came via email which I find insulting; it might as well have been by text! Having worked there for ten years, I would have expected a conversation as a minimum level of professional courtesy. Don't have a problem with them blocking access etc, that's SOP, it's just comical they're using my failure to contact them after that to see if they wanted my input (when clearly the answer was "No") as a reason for rejecting the invoice. They didn't say "no work during the four weeks = no pay", they're saying that I didn't contact them (and obviously nor did they contact me).

Other contracts which have ceased have been with good grace on both sides so this is a new situation for me. The contract refers to the Centre for Dispute Resolution as a vehicle for mediation in the case of any dispute. Do you have any experience of the organisation or an equivalent service?

Cheers

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

but having been terminated by that wonderful channel email and email/VPN etc switched off as though he didn't trust me, I wasn't inclined to have a friendly chat.

I'm not sure why you're taking that personally; it was unlikely to be anything to do with trust but more to do with strict company policy and insurances. They can't let people have access to their systems if they are no longer authorised to do so.

[BolshieBastard]

Well it all depends on what the contract states.

Usually, in IT contracting, a notice period in one of our contracts is pretty meaningless since if you dont do any work, you dont get paid. End of. Our contracts are not like permie contracts of employment where they have payment in lieu or a working notice period.

However, if the contract is more like that drawn up by large corporates, your company (not you) may have different terms that say something else regarding this situation.

Im a bit surprised you've been contracting for at least 10 years but are not aware of the contract 'no workie, no payie' clause.

If you want to know where you stand, you're going to need legal advice rather than that from a forum.

[helpneededplease]

feedback to your Posts

Hi to you all and thanks for the very fast replies.

There are basically two diametrically opposed lines of thought about this.

1 - the typical monthly invoice value sets a precedent (comment from a contractor I know) and the notice period of one month should be for a broadly equivalent figure as the Client didn't let me work it.

2 - the notice period is worthless, and because I didn't work that month, the former Client shouldn't be paying anything.

It's tough to square these two positions. The client's argument with me seems to be that I didn't contact him to offer to work, but having been terminated by that wonderful channel email and email/VPN etc switched off as though he didn't trust me, I wasn't inclined to have a friendly chat.

Has anyone been in this same position or had good advice from a specialist service they'd be happy to recommend?

Thanks Eric

[tractor]

....

...snip

This is absolutely correct, and the only contact during this time was to the Client’s wife when chasing her for payment of an overdue invoice.

...snip

Eric

Was this Google or Amazon?

I am sorry your 10 year contract was terminated. This is business, it happens. No, it's not nice when it doesn't happen amicably. Move on. Notice is for permies.

[SimonMac]

You have been paid for the work you did, please do not get hung up on notice period etc. they are worthless.