Should Umbrella guarantee to pay me even if Agency pay them late?

[Boney M]

If he has written proof that this happened then yes.

Thanks cojak

[cojak]

Can you confirm that the agency have been paid by the client.

mods is he allowed to name the agency? I would for one like to know so I can give them the swerve in the future

If he has written proof that this happened then yes.

[Boney M]

Can you confirm that the agency have been paid by the client.

mods is he allowed to name the agency? I would for one like to know so I can give them the swerve in the future

[BlasterBates]

Keep on the case, when an agency talks about cash flow problems this means they could potentially be put into bankruptcy at the whim of any creditor.

Of course the agent may just be trying to fob you off with excuses.

[Scrag Meister]

Red light - "Cash flow problem"

I would be very wary of any agency admitting to having a cash flow problem.

Be careful you don't end up with too much being owed to you.

I'm pretty sure the umbrella will not be paying until they are paid and the agency will play silly buggers if they are having financial problems.

Be sure to protect yourself as best you can.

If the agency don't adhere to the contract terms, i.e. are in breach, could you go to the client direct? Sooner rather than later imho.

Edit : As Safe Collections said, which I have just read

[Safe Collections]

Putting aside the strange contractual arrangement here for a moment, the one part of this that really concerns us is:

the Agency have admitted they have a cash flow problem and state that they cant pay the Umbrella until they get paid.

Our concerns are firstly that if you continue to provide your services via an agency that has already stated they have issues you could well be setting the stage for a significant financial loss. Secondly that the inference from the agency is essentially "well the brolly have to pay you irrespective" and that this shows both a lack of understanding and potentially an indication that the agent is intending to fold, taking your money along with it.

We would suggest that you clarify the contractual relationship ASAP to find out where the liability lays. Are you actually engaged via the brolly (in which case the chain should be end client - agency - brolly - you) or via the agent (making the chain end client - agency - you). From there you can at least start to work out how to move forward and what exactly the risk is in doing so.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If your umbrella company operates an over-arching contract of employment then they are obliged to pay you a salary (equivalent to minimum wage) once a month regardless of whether or not funds have been received from the agency. If you have opted in to the Agency Regs then the agency is obliged to pay you regardless of whether or not they have received funds from the client. However, it is also your umbrella company's responsibility to chase the debt which is (in legal terms) owed to them.

You say that the client HAS paid the agency albeit late but you infer that you still haven't been paid - is my understanding correct?

[contractnewbie]

Should Umbrella guarantee to pay me even if Agency pay them late?

Yes I agree I need an employment law/contract specialist, am looking today. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great :-). Thanks again

[TheFaQQer]

TheFaQQer: Thanks for your feedback appreciate it.

However I signed a contract with BOTH the Umbrella AND the Agency. The agency insisted I signed the contract with them also. I am new to contracting so perhaps should not have signed it. It does state in that contract 30 day payment terms (but I understand that may mean nothing as they dont pay me directly). Also I have it in many emails from the agency as I specifically asked and they have stated "we will pay the Umbrella within 30 days of receiving invoice").


So now I have a contract with obligations to the agency, restrictions on going direct to end client etc PLUS with the Umbrella.

With the Umbrella, they will guarantee Basic pay, but the way its calculated its not much.

Thanks

If the contract is with you, then what contract exists between the agency and the umbrella company?

Sounds like you urgently need to find a contract and employment law specialist to try to unravel this. I've never heard of an agency engaging with an individual directly, without taking them on as a PAYE resource or as self-employed. That almost never happens because it opens the agency up to some potential liabilities if you don't pay your tax.

[contractnewbie]

Should Umbrella guarantee to pay me even if Agency pay them late?

TheFaQQer: Thanks for your feedback appreciate it.

However I signed a contract with BOTH the Umbrella AND the Agency. The agency insisted I signed the contract with them also. I am new to contracting so perhaps should not have signed it. It does state in that contract 30 day payment terms (but I understand that may mean nothing as they dont pay me directly). Also I have it in many emails from the agency as I specifically asked and they have stated "we will pay the Umbrella within 30 days of receiving invoice").


So now I have a contract with obligations to the agency, restrictions on going direct to end client etc PLUS with the Umbrella.

With the Umbrella, they will guarantee Basic pay, but the way its calculated its not much.

Thanks

[TheFaQQer]

1) I have 30 day payment terms in a contract with the agency. However as the agency don't actually pay ME but pay the Umbrella- the agency seem to think these 30 day payment terms in my contract with them mean nothing - is that right?

You don't have a contract with the agency. The contract is between the agency and the umbrella. The next level down is then between the umbrella and you.

Assuming the contract between agency and umbrella has 30 day terms, if they are being breached then your employer needs to be chasing for the debt.

2) The agency say that the Umbrella should pay me even if they don't get paid. The Umbrella say this is untrue and they cant pay me until agency pays them- who is right?

The agency can only comment if they know the details of the contract between you and your employer, which they don't. I'd be amazed if the umbrella had something like that in your contract, though, because there would be nothing to stop the agency paying and them being left with the bill.

3) Are the agency in breach of contract so that I have some legal sway to switch to an another Agency that the end client uses (that I know have a good reputation for paying on time etc). To add this is not a one off every month I am having to chase payment and getting the runaround.

If the breach is sufficiently egregious, then that would give the contracting party the right to terminate the contract. However, you aren't party to the agreement - you have no contract with the agency, so you are only bound by your employment contract with the umbrella.

It looks like you aren't exactly clear on the chain of contracts - you need to chase the umbrella, the umbrella needs to chase the agent, the agent needs to chase the client.

If the cause of the problems is ultimately the client, then see if you can find someone there that can expedite that payment to clear the blockage. Personally, I'd be starting to worry that you won't see a penny, if the agency are having cash flow problems and can't get the invoice factored.

[tractor]

...

Hi

Please help I would love some advice! Here is my situation.

Background:

I contract through an Umbrella Company >> Agency >> End Client.

I have a contract with the Agency (30 day payment terms) AND the Umbrella (who are legally my employer) pay me once they have payment from Agency.

I actually brought the end client contract to the Agency (as I have worked for the end client for a while). I engaged the Umbrella just for payroll etc. (I have opted in to the AWR if that makes a difference).

The situation
The End client have paid the Agency late, the Agency have admitted they have a cash flow problem and state that they cant pay the Umbrella until they get paid. (Bare in mind I have 30 day terms with this agency in my contract). The Agency say that the Umbrella are obliged to pay me regardless (but that the agency have no obligations to pay the Umbrella e.g. its not the agencies problem that I haven't been paid but the Umbrellas).

Can anyone advise this is a minefield! A few questions:

1) I have 30 day payment terms in a contract with the agency. However as the agency don't actually pay ME but pay the Umbrella- the agency seem to think these 30 day payment terms in my contract with them mean nothing - is that right?
2) The agency say that the Umbrella should pay me even if they don't get paid. The Umbrella say this is untrue and they cant pay me until agency pays them- who is right?
3) Are the agency in breach of contract so that I have some legal sway to switch to an another Agency that the end client uses (that I know have a good reputation for paying on time etc). To add this is not a one off every month I am having to chase payment and getting the runaround.
4) Any recommendations on some legal firms who can advise here if needed?

Would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance

What are the terms of engagement with the umbrella?

I think you are confusing AWR with the Agency Conduct Regulations. If you are not opted out from the conduct regs, the agent is legally obliged to pay invoices regardless, though it is their choice whether to break the law or not. It is your choice to follow it up using the remedies available to you.

[northernladuk]

Have you thought about reading your Umbrella contract?

[JoJoGabor]

Cant help much apart from to advise to get PCG+ membership which insures you against the agency going into administration and losing you money, also I think you mean you are opted into the Conduct of Agency regs 2003 not the AWRs.

Opting into these regs mean the agency has to pay you even if they dont get paid, but having the Umbrella company in the middle confuses things for me. Sorry

[contractnewbie]

Hi

Please help I would love some advice! Here is my situation.

Background:

I contract through an Umbrella Company >> Agency >> End Client.

I have a contract with the Agency (30 day payment terms) AND the Umbrella (who are legally my employer) pay me once they have payment from Agency.

I actually brought the end client contract to the Agency (as I have worked for the end client for a while). I engaged the Umbrella just for payroll etc. (I have opted in to the Conduct of Agency regs 2003 if that makes a difference).

The situation
The End client have paid the Agency late, the Agency have admitted they have a cash flow problem and state that they cant pay the Umbrella until they get paid. (Bare in mind I have 30 day terms with this agency in my contract). The Agency say that the Umbrella are obliged to pay me regardless (but that the agency have no obligations to pay the Umbrella e.g. its not the agencies problem that I haven't been paid but the Umbrellas).

Can anyone advise this is a minefield! A few questions:

1) I have 30 day payment terms in a contract with the agency. However as the agency don't actually pay ME but pay the Umbrella- the agency seem to think these 30 day payment terms in my contract with them mean nothing - is that right?
2) The agency say that the Umbrella should pay me even if they don't get paid. The Umbrella say this is untrue and they cant pay me until agency pays them- who is right?
3) Are the agency in breach of contract so that I have some legal sway to switch to an another Agency that the end client uses (that I know have a good reputation for paying on time etc). To add this is not a one off every month I am having to chase payment and getting the runaround.
4) Any recommendations on some legal firms who can advise here if needed?

Would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance