test please delete

[Alias]

ommm

[NickFitz]

Well, as always, OS X upgrade went very smoothly, as far as the stuff you can see with the user interface is concerned. Apple are very good at that

On the other hand, I've just spent about four hours getting my local web and database servers back up and running, recompiling loads of Unix libraries, etc, etc

Though it isn't Apple's fault that the Homebrew package manager resolutely refuses to accept that you have anything other than the latest and greatest version of a library, meaning you have to manually uninstall and reinstall each of them individually, thereby causing them to be recompiled and generally built correctly. No, that's thanks to the wonders of the Open Sores community, which seems not to have bothered with the minor detail of making the package manager itself aware of the need to make use of the appropriate new configurations when asked to upgrade things

Suppose I ought to cook dinner now it's all back to where it was this time yesterday

[Alias]

Well, as always, OS X upgrade went very smoothly, as far as the stuff you can see with the user interface is concerned. Apple are very good at that

On the other hand, I've just spent about four hours getting my local web and database servers back up and running, recompiling loads of Unix libraries, etc, etc

Though it isn't Apple's fault that the Homebrew package manager resolutely refuses to accept that you have anything other than the latest and greatest version of a library, meaning you have to manually uninstall and reinstall each of them individually, thereby causing them to be recompiled and generally built correctly. No, that's thanks to the wonders of the Open Sores community, which seems not to have bothered with the minor detail of making the package manager itself aware of the need to make use of the appropriate new configurations when asked to upgrade things

Suppose I ought to cook dinner now it's all back to where it was this time yesterday

Surely that can all be scripted to run everytime an upgrade happens?

[NickFitz]

Surely that can all be scripted to run everytime an upgrade happens?

Now that I know about it, I can do something like that; but I hadn't encountered it with this package manager before, because the last time I did a major OS X upgrade while having large numbers of additional Unix libraries installed was on my old MacBook, before Homebrew was a thing.

The problem is that it looks at, say, libfoo and thinks "7.3.1, that's fine" - but doesn't detect that it was compiled under the previous OS version. Then, when you upgrade some package that has a dependency on libfoo, it casually says "Ah, that was compiled on another platform, so it probably won't work" - but it won't upgrade it by downloading the package for the current platform and compiling it, because it will only do that if a newer version is available, and although it knows to get the Mavericks version, that's also 7.3.1.

So you have to tell it to uninstall and install. However, as these libs were originally installed as dependencies of something you explicitly installed, it set the permissions such that you can't remove it; and it refuses to do anything under sudo either. So you have to manually change the permissions before you can uninstall and reinstall.

And as the whole point of a package manager is to keep things like dependency chains away from you, you don't know what needs doing.

I ended up running a particular SQL command and checking Postgres's error log, until it was loading its shared libraries successfully. After that I had to repeatedly make HTTP requests and check the Apache error log to see what the WSGI module was being told by Python was the problem. Then sudo to change permissions, uninstall, reinstall, and back for the next one.

The problem is that the package manager doesn't manage the case when it has the latest versions of all the files, but the platform version has changed underneath them.

[Alias]

Now that I know about it, I can do something like that; but I hadn't encountered it with this package manager before, because the last time I did a major OS X upgrade while having large numbers of additional Unix libraries installed was on my old MacBook, before Homebrew was a thing.

The problem is that it looks at, say, libfoo and thinks "7.3.1, that's fine" - but doesn't detect that it was compiled under the previous OS version. Then, when you upgrade some package that has a dependency on libfoo, it casually says "Ah, that was compiled on another platform, so it probably won't work" - but it won't upgrade it by downloading the package for the current platform and compiling it, because it will only do that if a newer version is available, and although it knows to get the Mavericks version, that's also 7.3.1.

So you have to tell it to uninstall and install. However, as these libs were originally installed as dependencies of something you explicitly installed, it set the permissions such that you can't remove it; and it refuses to do anything under sudo either. So you have to manually change the permissions before you can uninstall and reinstall.

And as the whole point of a package manager is to keep things like dependency chains away from you, you don't know what needs doing.

I ended up running a particular SQL command and checking Postgres's error log, until it was loading its shared libraries successfully. After that I had to repeatedly make HTTP requests and check the Apache error log to see what the WSGI module was being told by Python was the problem. Then sudo to change permissions, uninstall, reinstall, and back for the next one.

The problem is that the package manager doesn't manage the case when it has the latest versions of all the files, but the platform version has changed underneath them.

Wow that is a total PITA! Be glad that OS upgrades don't happen too often...

[zeitghost]

ommm

WAS.

But Bigger.

Zen.

Chury.

Om.

[zeitghost]

But I thought Macs "just worked".

[NickFitz]

But I thought Macs "just worked".

They do, for the things normal people do.

It's weirdos like me, who insist on using them as Unix workstations, that get caught out

If I used Linux then it would all just work, except it would involve typing in weird incantations hundreds of characters long, and I'd have to do all my work in programs designed for the VT-100 terminal.

By using a Mac, I get to use nice GUI apps, even for things like editing Apache config files or setting up database servers; but when a major OS upgrade comes along, all that Unixy stuff that no normal person would touch with a barge pole still has to be done at the command line.

It's a small price to pay, really - the key thing about this upgrade is that they'd shifted to a new C and C++ compiler architecture, or something. They won't do that again for years

[NickFitz]

Anyway, my Mac is now back at its rightful work of ripping Breaking Bad DVDs, at which it excels

[eek]

Back from an 11 mile walk around Derwentwater.

During the rain my North Face coat eventually leaked water through a sleeve so I replaced in when we returned to Keswick.. (The North Face one cost £200 £4.24 from Boo.com 15 years ago so hardly owes me anything)...

Then a bit of shopping but no decent Innis and Gunn in Booths so spent £20 on other beer instead including a bottle of yellow lorry. I doubt that's the easiest thing to order after a few pints..