Public sector contracting

[Hobosapien]

Legal obligation is one thing but if a trust has to make a decision between hiring a lawyer to resolve IR35 for IT staff or hiring another doctor then I can see why they just go the "everyone's inside" route.

Hopefully the fuss and additional expense kicked up by this change affecting the PS will mean the government are pressured to take a simpler approach:

1. If the contract is to an individual then they must be paid PAYE for all income (in effect always inside IR35).
2. If the contract is to a company then normal b2b rules apply (invoices and VAT).

Of course for us the challenge would then to be to obtain contracts to our Ltd rather than named individual, with the substitution rights (and other b2b stuff) automatically in place.

[eek]

Hopefully the fuss and additional expense kicked up by this change affecting the PS will mean the government are pressured to take a simpler approach:

1. If the contract is to an individual then they must be paid PAYE for all income (in effect always inside IR35).
2. If the contract is to a company then normal b2b rules apply (invoices and VAT).

Of course for us the challenge would then to be to obtain contracts to our Ltd rather than named individual, with the substitution rights (and other b2b stuff) automatically in place.

That was already covered in the Travel and Subsistence rules in 2015. The fear expressed by unions (with evidence to prove the allegation) was that companies would force people into creating limited companies to enable T&S to continue to be reclaimed.

So the odds of your example occurring is zilch... The Taylor report will tell you how things will happen and I expect explicit rules and definitions for employees and workers...

[ITcon]

This seems to be causing a lot of issues with my friends, i thought it was all in "stone" now?

[man]

This seems to be causing a lot of issues with my friends, i thought it was all in "stone" now?

What issues precisely? I'm finding it pretty simple - if it's 'inside' then my quoted rate is higher by the amount my accountant told me is the equivalent of my 'outside' rate - and my service is adjusted to suit. After all, I'm looking for return on investment of my time.

Interesting stats from a recent Hays presentation on IR35:
78% of public sector clients have found it harder to attract skilled temporary or contract workers.
76% of departments have lost highly skilled contractors.
47% of projects lost at least a quarter of their contractors.
50% of contractors have said they will now never work in the public sector if caught by IR35.

There was much more, but I think those demonstrates the damage quite nicely!

[1manshow]

What issues precisely? I'm finding it pretty simple - if it's 'inside' then my quoted rate is higher by the amount my accountant told me is the equivalent of my 'outside' rate - and my service is adjusted to suit. After all, I'm looking for return on investment of my time.

Interesting stats from a recent Hays presentation on IR35:
78% of public sector clients have found it harder to attract skilled temporary or contract workers.
76% of departments have lost highly skilled contractors.
47% of projects lost at least a quarter of their contractors.
50% of contractors have said they will now never work in the public sector if caught by IR35.

There was much more, but I think those demonstrates the damage quite nicely!

These stats are not very interesting at all. What did we expect was going to happen when we told people "We are going to reduce your pay for no good reason, but make you continue to do the same work ".

They may have had a leg to stand on if they started to provide employee benefits, but otherwise the only interesting statistic that remains is why more people haven't left!

[Jay12]

Hello there.

Posting here, finding it difficult with the search function not returning anything too relevant for this company.

I am considering a role with NHS Property Services. I have been told the role is outside IR35 and the contract review from QDOS has come back clean aside from 1 clause. Wording around "providing substitute" should be stronger.

My question is does anyone have experience with NHS PS and can you shed any light on their contracts and working practises in relation to IR35?

[northernladuk]

Hello there.

Posting here, finding it difficult with the search function not returning anything too relevant for this company.

I am considering a role with NHS Property Services. I have been told the role is outside IR35 and the contract review from QDOS has come back clean aside from 1 clause. Wording around "providing substitute" should be stronger.

My question is does anyone have experience with NHS PS and can you shed any light on their contracts and working practises in relation to IR35?

They should be able to give you evidence of why you are outside and then you are golden surely?

Read the opening posts by The FaQQer in this thread

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...bout-ir35.html

[Jay12]

Hello there.

Posting here, finding it difficult with the search function not returning anything too relevant for this company.

I am considering a role with NHS Property Services. I have been told the role is outside IR35 and the contract review from QDOS has come back clean aside from 1 clause. Wording around "providing substitute" should be stronger.

My question is does anyone have experience with NHS PS and can you shed any light on their contracts and working practises in relation to IR35?

Yes agreed, will be asking for some written confirmation. Thanks for the rec, will check it out.

[Manic]

Yes agreed, will be asking for some written confirmation. Thanks for the rec, will check it out.

As NLUK suggests, if you have written confirmation it is outside, it's a public sector client subject to the rules surrounding determination, it matters not what your contract or working practices suggest as the liability rests with the engager.