IR35 agent games - I forgot about them

[jamesbrown]

vs shere ignorance

Well, I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't trust an agent to cut my hedge.

[northernladuk]

Not sure if this is so much an agent game (vs shere ignorance) but got this from a agent in a job spec today:

The role is either inside or outside IR35 – 6 months rolling and they would need someone in the office 5 days a week.

Spoke to him and said what was the deal with this "inside or outside" and that it sounded sketchy being both outside but with imposed 5 days onsite. Agent said "oh no its nothing to do with IR35, its just a cultural thing at the client..."

Not to sure why you feel the need to put the winker emoji on as it's not needed in the prof forums and could also make you look like a right pillock.

5 days onsite on it's own has absolutely sod all to do with IR35. We all worked quite happily on site 5 days a week and were outside so on the imposed days he's right. Working location is just an agreement and professional courtesy between supplier and client.

That said, once you throw in rolling contract it starts to look a bit more suss and I can only imagine when they say inside or outside I imagine they mean you can work via brolly or LTD.

The whole thing is tatty but he's right in the aspect that the 5 days has nothing to do with IR35 so might be careful with that winker emoji.

[MrC]

5 days onsite on it's own has absolutely sod all to do with IR35.

Really? If it were necessitated by needing to work on a system which for security or whatever reason couldn't be accessed remotely then fair enough but saying it's because that's the clients culture sounds like an inside pointer to me.

If the clients cultural preference was that you arrived at 9am, lunched at 12, left at 5 and attended a weekly company wide HR meeting I suppose you think those aren't inside pointers either.

[northernladuk]

Really? If it were necessitated by needing to work on a system which for security or whatever reason couldn't be accessed remotely then fair enough but saying it's because that's the clients culture sounds like an inside pointer to me.

If the clients cultural preference was that you arrived at 9am, lunched at 12, left at 5 and attended a weekly company wide HR meeting I suppose you think those aren't inside pointers either.

Nope, you are a supplier to the client and that means meeting the clients needs. That could be H&S, Security policies, locations, kit whatever. You agree some of this as part of the work package. None of that has anything to do with whether the client is treating you like a perm or not. There is also an element of professional courtesy to your client.

It only becomes a problem if it becomes Supervision Direction and Control. If the client is treating you like a perm and expect you to do everything they say. You have to be very aware of IR35 to then decide when they step over the line from professional courtesy to directing everything you do.

It's not always black and white so need your wits about you but you could aligning somewhat to client culture is part of being in business not the opposite.
If you rock up and say I'm not doing that because I don't want to you are gonna be out the door in no time.

This is why Americans tend to be so unpopular. They don't do professional courtesy and get arsey about everything. Still get the work done but they've got the reputation to go with it. Anecdotally I've worked in the middle east and the US people are despised for good reason. Very few yanks paid any head to the culture out there because they U.S.A! Did what they had to without consideration for the culture and religion. Got the work done but very often despised by the Middle Eastern people. Maybe an extreme example but understand your client and going a long with it is a big part of delivery in a service world IMO.

[northernladuk]

Forgot to caveat the above like I did before. On it's own this shouldn't be an issue. If you throw it in to the mix with 'rolling extension' as opposed to renewal of contract if required and other factors that appear to be minor on their own it could pain a whole different picture. Know IR35 and just keep your wits about you.