IR35 Pulled Out Of Finance Bill Until April 2021

[northernladuk]

Indeed, a very similar situation. For what it's worth with the fighting (arguments) on record and the fact the pre april determinations aren't legal but only an opinion which was likely wrong due to incorrect process (laziness, blanket assessments), there is very little chance HMRC will attack.
So safe in my opinion. Besides you and I know we are in the right with our own assessments. Those that rolled over and took it all were more than likely inside.

They are the opinion of the client that pays for you. If they want bums on seats under D&C with no RoS then it doesn't matter how unfair you think it is.

To go outside after you've been given an inside determination is just madness. Your IR35 insurance will now be invalid and its something the outside to inside crowd are most likely to need. Just making an even bigger target for yourselves now.

If we thought outside to inside was high risk and a fairly easy for HMRC to win just image what outside inside outside inside will be. HMRC will wet themselves. Your client will confirm you were inside not once but twice. That's got to be fraud in HMRCs eyes.

[creativity]

They are the opinion of the client that pays for you. If they want bums on seats under D&C with no RoS then it doesn't matter how unfair you think it is.

To go outside after you've been given an inside determination is just madness. Your IR35 insurance will now be invalid and its something the outside to inside crowd are most likely to need. Just making an even bigger target for yourselves now.

If we thought outside to inside was high risk and a fairly easy for HMRC to win just image what outside inside outside inside will be. HMRC will wet themselves. Your client will confirm you were inside not once but twice. That's got to be fraud in HMRCs eyes.

So using your logic when the client changes their initial determination from inside to an outside determination after an appeal HMRC have even more ammunition?
That's incorrect old boy.

[OnlyWayIsUp]

They are the opinion of the client that pays for you. If they want bums on seats under D&C with no RoS then it doesn't matter how unfair you think it is.

To go outside after you've been given an inside determination is just madness. Your IR35 insurance will now be invalid and its something the outside to inside crowd are most likely to need. Just making an even bigger target for yourselves now.

If we thought outside to inside was high risk and a fairly easy for HMRC to win just image what outside inside outside inside will be. HMRC will wet themselves. Your client will confirm you were inside not once but twice. That's got to be fraud in HMRCs eyes.

How would the HMRC know this chain of events? If it went inside SDS to appeal to outside SDS surely thats it sorted with that client. Anyway isn't it academic now? Surely no SDS are worth the paper?

[northernladuk]

How would the HMRC know this chain of events? If it went inside SDS to appeal to outside SDS surely thats it sorted with that client. Anyway isn't it academic now? Surely no SDS are worth the paper?

Because this has only been postponed. We've mused inside outside were low hanging fruit before. Now there is an extra year on the tax they can get back. Once they investigate, or look at the data they already have it will become clear.

An SDS might not exist in law but it is clear indication of how the client sees the role. If the SDS say no RoS and they want D&C then only a complete idiot would try and pass the role off as outside.

[creativity]

Because this has only been postponed. We've mused inside outside were low hanging fruit before. Now there is an extra year on the tax they can get back. Once they investigate, or look at the data they already have it will become clear.

An SDS might not exist in law but it is clear indication of how the client sees the role. If the SDS say no RoS and they want D&C then only a complete idiot would try and pass the role off as outside.

I think you are a little confused, we are talking about deemed inside than outside after appeal. Nothing in that for HMRC to hang their hat on I'm afraid.
Besides it's all a mute point until the legislation comes into affect. Unless you really believe HMRC are going to force companies to hand over data on everyone deemed inside then investigate where all those PSC are now and investigate each in their own merit? That would take an army of staff. Not to mention the ambiguities in implementation and incorrect blanket assessments.

Let me tell how you how it will be done; by algorithms and data. Which wont be available (data) until legislation passes.

So now there is time for all those who are inside and outside to align themselves correctly for a smooth transition next year (or sooner, shouldnt rule out an Autumn implementation).

I do agree with your disdain (which I can hear loudly) of those who are abusing the existing legislation, but there are fewer now and those that continue will be swept up.

[OnlyWayIsUp]

Because this has only been postponed. We've mused inside outside were low hanging fruit before. Now there is an extra year on the tax they can get back. Once they investigate, or look at the data they already have it will become clear.

An SDS might not exist in law but it is clear indication of how the client sees the role. If the SDS say no RoS and they want D&C then only a complete idiot would try and pass the role off as outside.

My CEST came back outside, my client says Im outside but the end client says I'm inside (appeal has been submitted with justifications) If they stick to inside I can only think to leave is the only option which is a shame as I enjoy working there. Its all project work on 12 week contracts. If the project goes beyond the 12 weeks I request a new one which it invariably does but they can fire my PSC at any point.... What to do???

[northernladuk]

My CEST came back outside, my client says Im outside but the end client says I'm inside (appeal has been submitted with justifications) If they stick to inside I can only think to leave is the only option which is a shame as I enjoy working there. Its all project work on 12 week contracts. If the project goes beyond the 12 weeks I request a new one which it invariably does but they can fire my PSC at any point.... What to do???

I must admit I don't really know. The situation is so complex at the moment and christ knows what is going to happen to the job market now. Tough one.

Whatever you do I wouldn't be too quick to carry on outside as I am sure someone will come along and suggest. But that's IMHO just reading snippets on here.

[jammer]

And they can't just open another company and start again either....

What a complete disaster government is at the moment.

[tinopener]

What a complete disaster government is at the moment.

You should have been born into a different reality, where disasters don't happen. Boo to disasters, I say.

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

at least all the players on here have had a dry run in helping newbies with questions so there shouldn't be any further questions in feb/march 2021 !