Nothing will change until IR35 changes start to hurt clients

[mockedguy]

Spoke with an ex-colleague/mate last week who has been at a large bank in London for 3 years now. Seems all the contractors there are just switching to Inside overnight and have no idea of the risks. I told him the risks, and he said no-one there knew (yeah I know, they should, but reality is most sign on the dotted line without reading and never bother to look further).

The best thing for all of us is if all contractors realised the risks of staying and walked. Clients obviously don't want all their projects gutted of skilled people overnight, and maybe then they will start to scream and give it to hmrc. Clients are happy to put contractors in a vulnerable position, just as long as their projects carry on.

HMRC seem to totally ignore that to clients contractors are highly skilled experienced people they can bring in quickly, not have to train up, do the work, and get rid of easily later. They can't just be treated or labelled as 'employees', its a whole different role. I suspect when this starts to hurt clients, hmrc will be forced to backtrack a bit (like an amnesty).

[northernladuk]

You first paragraph kinda makes the argument that HMRC have got it right. Years at a client, no idea of being a contractor and just carry on. If they've unearthed all this they are hardly going to admit they dropped a bollock and change anything.

[BrilloPad]

Spoke with an ex-colleague/mate last week who has been at a large bank in London for 3 years now. Seems all the contractors there are just switching to Inside overnight and have no idea of the risks. I told him the risks, and he said no-one there knew (yeah I know, they should, but reality is most sign on the dotted line without reading and never bother to look further).

The best thing for all of us is if all contractors realised the risks of staying and walked. Clients obviously don't want all their projects gutted of skilled people overnight, and maybe then they will start to scream and give it to hmrc. Clients are happy to put contractors in a vulnerable position, just as long as their projects carry on.

HMRC seem to totally ignore that to clients contractors are highly skilled experienced people they can bring in quickly, not have to train up, do the work, and get rid of easily later. They can't just be treated or labelled as 'employees', its a whole different role. I suspect when this starts to hurt clients, hmrc will be forced to backtrack a bit (like an amnesty).

Why should HMRC care? And exactly who will force HMRC to do anything?

Besides, banks will offshore the work. Plenty of skilled, qualified workers who don't whine, are not self entitled, and get on with it.

As NLUK said, HMRC have got this right. In fact, posts like yours will encourage HMRC(they do read these pages you know) to go after more people retrospectively.

[BlueSharp]

You first paragraph kinda makes the argument that HMRC has got it right. Years at a client, no idea of being a contractor and just carry on. If they've unearthed all this they are hardly going to admit they dropped a bollock and change anything.

Exactly this. When these permie-tractors start getting nudge letters from HMRC I'm sure there will be a special section on this forum just for them.

[BrilloPad]

Exactly this. When these permie-tractors start getting nudge letters from HMRC I'm sure there will be a special section on this forum just for them.

Hopefully the new section will be under general. Entitled "We told you so".

[eek]

Hopefully the new section will be under general. Entitled "We told you so".

Why? I suspect we would both have rights to post exactly that (albeit in a slightly better tone) in the freshly created professional forum.

I mean it's not difficult:-

How long were you at the client prior to April 2020?

Did terms and conditions change when you switched in April 2020 to an umbrella company?

Do you have evidence (from the time) to show you were treated differently to permanent members of staff?

Do you have evidence (from now) that shows the work you are doing post March 2020 is very different from the work you were doing prior to April 2020?

Do you have a QDOS or similar IR35 review from your initial contract (and, ideally) renewals?


We know that most people caught are going to be answering No to all those questions (after asking what we mean by IR35 and QDOS).

[mockedguy]

Exactly this. When these permie-tractors start getting nudge letters from HMRC I'm sure there will be a special section on this forum just for them.

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'permie-tractors'? and why are they referred to as 'them'?

There are a few here who clearly seem to laughingly take the p*ss out of other contractors as though they aren't real contractors like you are. I'm not being *rsey, just trying to understand what makes you feel you are a valid contractor and the others not?

[eek]

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by 'permie-tractors'? and why are they referred to as 'them'?

There are a few here who clearly seem to laughingly take the p*ss out of other contractors as though they aren't real contractors like you are. I'm not being *rsey, just trying to understand what makes you feel you are a valid contractor and the others not?

My definition would be someone who has been there for a period of time (years) doing the exact same job as permanent members of staff also do.

[abz2020]

My definition would be someone who has been there for a period of time (years) doing the exact same job as permanent members of staff also do.

Funny this, in my current role (outside ir35), there are only contractors. Zero perm people do what we do.

[northernladuk]

My definition would be someone who has been there for a period of time (years) doing the exact same job as permanent members of staff also do.

And hasn't a clue about how to run their company or does anything about IR35.