Contract terminated, options?

[Contra42]

Why were you not logged on?

So that I could get some work done! That’s kinda the main reason for working out of office, you don’t get constantly pestered by those IMs, emails, people turning up at your desk etc. etc....

[northernladuk]

As I say.. For reasons wrong or right, I'll bet the clients seen something and this was just the final straw.

Argue the situation all you want. It's done now, don't need to convince us. Just one of those things.

That said there is a distinct possibility its something completely different. Looked at the office totty a few times too many, face doesn't fit, budgets run out or whatever. The reason they gave is just the easiest excuse..

But it doesn't matter.

[northernladuk]

The relevance of IR35 to the query is that I’ve always worked outside it and therefore considered how I go about producing a deliverable as well as where I am located when working on it as being within my purview, unless specifically agreed within the contract i.e. working location, core office hours etc are stated. In this case the ‘outside IR35’ contract makes no such restrictions so how can the Client direct them and maintain that the contract is outside IR35?

You might consider it but the client might not. Could be they wanted a fairly extreme level of D&C so your status could have been in jeopardy. Working practices trump contract an if the client takes umbridge to you beijg offsite then you might have different opinions.

But it might be a completely different reason...

And it doesn't matter.

[Contra42]

You might consider it but the client might not. Could be they wanted a fairly extreme level of D&C so your status could have been in jeopardy. Working practices trump contract an if the client takes umbridge to you beijg offsite then you might have different opinions.

But it might be a completely different reason...

And it doesn't matter.

Don’t disagree with you here, as this all happened a while back and as I’ve moved on to another contract it doesn’t matter per-say. I’m wondering about the impact on the Client and remaining contractors if HMRC deems the working practices in this case are not in line with the outside IR35 assessment.

You say that working practices trump contract but what options does the contractor have if those working practices are contrary to the Clients IR35 assessment (this being public sector)?

[northernladuk]

Don’t disagree with you here, as this all happened a while back and as I’ve moved on to another contract it doesn’t matter per-say. I’m wondering about the impact on the Client and remaining contractors if HMRC deems the working practices in this case are not in line with the outside IR35 assessment.

You say that working practices trump contract but what options does the contractor have if those working practices are contrary to the Clients IR35 assessment (this being public sector)?

Ah. Good point. Forgot it was public sector. If the working practices don't match then you've got grounds to challenge the practices and bring them back in to line with the contract. Risk is all on the client.

I do think, and I've said it before, that this will be the future focus for HMRC enquiries. In theory they should then come after the client as it's their risk but I just have a feeling something is going to change and it will fall in our lap again somehow so still worth being diligent and making sure they align properly.

[GhostofTarbera]

I presume client manager thought you were just an office temp / permietractor and you being offline = not working

Really surprised you have gotten away with it for so long, as all experienced contractors know the number 1 must have is to keep your status online active when you are

Travelling on holiday / on holiday / round your lovers house / in the pub / at the cinema

I meant working from home

You got caught, suck it up and move on


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[BrilloPad]

So that I could get some work done! That’s kinda the main reason for working out of office, you don’t get constantly pestered by those IMs, emails, people turning up at your desk etc. etc....

You sound like the type of person who believes that systems work fine without users. Or that its fine to go-live and after that any problems are someone elses fault.

The whole company has to get on, not just one person. There is no I in team. Though to be fair there is a me...

[NotAllThere]

WFH - the 'W' means working.
at your desk, in your home office.
online.
contactable during core hours <or whatever arrangement you have>
'phone on.
etc.

With my client, if the W meant "as in the office but at home", then that'd usually mean in the coffee area having discussions about various projects., and about 2 hours doing anything tangible.. I get much more done working from home. We're not all under direction and control like you.

[BrilloPad]

With my client, if the W meant "as in the office but at home", then that'd usually mean in the coffee area having discussions about various projects., and about 2 hours doing anything tangible.. I get much more done working from home. We're not all under direction and control like you.

See my response above. We all have to get on.

[GhostofTarbera]

As a long term contractor, 30+ years, I recently suffered a weird contract termination by a public sector company in Scotland who had assessed the contract as Outside IR35. The reasons given for the termination was that on a day I was working out of office, with prior agreement of the Client, I was:
‘...not logged on and is therefore neither visible nor contactable.‘

Note: my contract neither states required working times or duration, nor that I be logged on! The ‘visible’ part of the above statement is particularly worrying as it indicates a thought process that equates the lack of online activity with lack of work and the monitoring of such as acceptable.

I’m wondering if such situations are becoming more common as I’ve never heard of one like it?
And I’m obviously interested in any actions that could be take if such was to happen again!

Thoughts anyone?

Did they honour your notice period when terminated ?


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