Draft Employment Status Manual Updates

[WordIsBond]

That’s passive aggressive.

Thanks!

[ladymuck]

That’s passive aggressive.

How so?

I apologise if I offended you by thanking people for sharing information. I didn't realise that giving thanks is now on the snowflake list.

[WordIsBond]

Perhaps he was trying to be funny. I was!

(I didn't see the joke in his, though)

[IRMe]

Thanks!

You are welcome, you can have that in a friendly or an aggressive way of your choice.

ESM10015 is interesting, it is not clear how\if disagreements could be arbitrated if the client company fails to understand (or wilfully ignores) a correction\evidence for an alternative determination. The disagreement can also be brought at any point in the engagement, which could span more than one tax year and result in the incorrect taxes being paid back. Any such discussions would probably risk the relationships between PSC and Clients\Agents too. A cheeky PSC could well raise an Employment Tribunal and an IR35 disagreement at the end of a lengthy engagement, and use the evidence from both to fight each claim.

Reading it all, I'm starting to see why large users of contractors are starting to shut their doors - they just can't handle the complexity and risk. We'll have to see how the labour market responds I guess but the disruption in the meantime is going to be painful.

[TestMangler]

You are welcome, you can have that in a friendly or an aggressive way of your choice.

ESM10015 is interesting, it is not clear how\if disagreements could be arbitrated if the client company fails to understand (or wilfully ignores) a correction\evidence for an alternative determination. The disagreement can also be brought at any point in the engagement, which could span more than one tax year and result in the incorrect taxes being paid back. Any such discussions would probably risk the relationships between PSC and Clients\Agents too. A cheeky PSC could well raise an Employment Tribunal and an IR35 disagreement at the end of a lengthy engagement, and use the evidence from both to fight each claim.

Reading it all, I'm starting to see why large users of contractors are starting to shut their doors - they just can't handle the complexity and risk. We'll have to see how the labour market responds I guess but the disruption in the meantime is going to be painful.

That's kinda half been done already, a number of years ago.......the guy generally gets ridiculed for it, but that's CUK for you

[JohntheBike]

That's kinda half been done already, a number of years ago.......the guy generally gets ridiculed for it, but that's CUK for you

at least the guy has been consistent in saying no employee taxes without employee benefits!

[TestMangler]

at least the guy has been consistent in saying no employee taxes without employee benefits!

FWIW I agreed with what you were doing at the time. Just a shame HMRC didn't try to take you for IR35 at the same time or just after. (A shame for us, not you :-) )

[JohntheBike]

FWIW I agreed with what you were doing at the time. Just a shame HMRC didn't try to take you for IR35 at the same time or just after. (A shame for us, not you :-) )

they were going to, but were told (from high) to back off when I lost my ET. Which is why I keep claiming (even in today's posts) that HMRC are unlikely to challenge anyone who has an ET judgement about the engagement.

thanks for the words of support. Many others have also supported my position.

[northernladuk]

they were going to, but were told (from high) to back off when I lost my ET. Which is why I keep claiming (even in today's posts) that HMRC are unlikely to challenge anyone who has an ET judgement about the engagement.

thanks for the words of support. Many others have also supported my position.

Making a claim thst something is unlikely 15+ years later... Yeah really helpful.

[JohntheBike]

Making a claim thst something is unlikely 15+ years later... Yeah really helpful.

I'm just demonstrating that politics can have an over riding affect on the issues. It was clear by the letters which HMRC revealed to me, as a result of a FOI request, that politics over rode HMRC's desire to chase me under IR35.