Is it as bad as it seems?

[ladymuck]

2 of my friends have just quit HSBC as they are on £500 a day but commute from jock land and costs £3K ish a month on expenses - now out of net income about £6K leaves just £3K after mortgage and house bills it leaves them negative income

Expenses is the killer for people who need to

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The whole point of a flexible work force is that they are willing to travel to the arse end of nowhere for a gig. By disallowing the expenses incurred, some clients will have terrible trouble finding people to do the work they need.

I appreciate not everyone thinks London is the arse end of nowhere but the same principle applies.

[simes]

The whole point of a flexible work force is that they are willing to travel to the arse end of nowhere for a gig. By disallowing the expenses incurred, some clients will have terrible trouble finding people to do the work they need.

I appreciate not everyone thinks London is the arse end of nowhere but the same principle applies.

I wonder if, once clients see the reason they're not getting contractors to come visit them, they may not offer per diems, or hotel rooms costed and invoiced straight to the client.

(Caveats: I don't know, am only wondering, no experience of anything in 2020 (at time of writing), Brave New World etc.)

[eek]

I wonder if, once clients see the reason they're not getting contractors to come visit them, they may not offer per diems, or hotel rooms costed and invoiced straight to the client.

(Caveats: I don't know, am only wondering, no experience of anything in 2020 (at time of writing), Brave New World etc.)

Why would they when there are other local candidates who won't need those costs covered.

Granted the local candidate may not be as good but if they are £200 a day cheaper (after expenses) that won't matter.

[SimonMac]

Yes it sucks, fortunately there seems to be a good few companies local to me, so if worse comes to it and I have to go Inside I can work localish.

[simes]

The whole point of a flexible work force is that they are willing to travel to the arse end of nowhere for a gig.

Why would they when there are other local candidates who won't need those costs covered.

Granted the local candidate may not be as good but if they are £200 a day cheaper (after expenses) that won't matter.

I was responding to the Lady's point. If we accept the likelihood of what she says, then I am wondering as to the likelihood of what I said. If you do not accept the likelihood of her point, you can ignore mine.

As to your point about 'may not be as good'!, well that has just knocked on the head any need for competition between clients who may go that extra mile to understand and thus properly implement IR35 law, and how that may open themselves up to an, if only ever so slightly, better level of candidates.

[eek]

I was responding to the Lady's point. If we accept the likelihood of what she says, then I am wondering as to the likelihood of what I said. If you do not accept the likelihood of her point, you can ignore mine.

As to your point about 'may not be as good'!, well that has just knocked on the head any need for competition between clients who may go that extra mile to understand and thus properly implement IR35 law, and how that may open themselves up to an, if only ever so slightly, better level of candidates.

The point is that I'm more pessimistic. Even in the middle of nowhere you can find people who can just about do the job required. Companies are very unlikely to pay expenses unless they really have zero choice.

And if it's completely impossible you just use someone remotely (be it someone in the UK, or India / Estonia / Bulgaria).

[Paralytic]

The point is that I'm more pessimistic. Even in the middle of nowhere you can find people who can just about do the job required. Companies are very unlikely to pay expenses unless they really have zero choice.

And if it's completely impossible you just use someone remotely (be it someone in the UK, or India / Estonia / Bulgaria).

+1

The client will put forward their day rate, and those from farther afield will not apply. The client will chose from those that do apply and will be blissfully unaware that there are other people who excluded themselves form applying due to the inability to reclaim expenses. And the world will continue to spin.

Any thought that clients will offer day rate + expenses/per diem is fanciful, except in the most niche/critical of knowledge areas where there is no-one available locally.

[simes]

The point is that I'm more pessimistic. Even in the middle of nowhere you can find people who can just about do the job required. Companies are very unlikely to pay expenses unless they really have zero choice.

And if it's completely impossible you just use someone remotely (be it someone in the UK, or India / Estonia / Bulgaria).

It's an absolutely fair point.

But in extrapolating your point to its end conclusion, one might surmise there will therefore be no incentive for clients to get involved with making IR35 work for contractors.. Cos' there will always be another someone else nearly good enough.

Let's see. Five months and counting...

[Paralytic]

It's an absolutely fair point.

But in extrapolating your point to its end conclusion, one might surmise there will therefore be no incentive for clients to get involved with making IR35 work for contractors.. Cos' there will always be another someone else nearly good enough.

This is exactly where I think we'll end up for all the standard roles (PM, BA, design and development, test etc, including lead roles) unless specific niche market skills are required.

[eek]

It's an absolutely fair point.

But in extrapolating your point to its end conclusion, one might surmise there will therefore be no incentive for clients to get involved with making IR35 work for contractors.. Cos' there will always be another someone else nearly good enough.

Let's see. Five months and counting...

For most clients there isn't - why take the risk of HMRC investigating your decisions and presenting you with a large bill when you can just insist on an inside IR35 contract.

And I'm sure that's exactly what HMRC are saying on the QT. To ensure these changes work we will need to pick some companies as test cases - are you feeling lucky punk?