Dilemma

[CompoundOverload]

Another IR35 post!

Looking for a bit of advice on how to play out the below scenario....

Was advised by agency back in July that the client will be reviewing all contractors in due course and making assessments based on their roles to determine whether they are in or out of scope.

A follow up email was provided yesterday stating that in the next month this process will be concluded - circa 10th November. In the email, I was alarmed by the following "Our review of the legislation and initial findings indicate that a significant proportion of roles will be ‘In Scope’ of the regulations" which has made me slightly nervous. Despite my contract being confirmed by the agency as outside and having this reviewed separately by QDOS (who also agreed), I took out TLC365 insurance to be on the safe side.

I'm currently at the client until the end of the year, so timing wise it's not great as was hoping this wouldn't happen until the New Year when I'd be out of there. Now, if they get twitchy and deem the majority of people inside (as they don't want the pressure of having to face tax bills later on) this puts me in an unfavourable position. Do I hand my notice in now and leave before this decision is made, or do I wait it out and see what the outcome is only to leave 6 weeks after?

[northernladuk]

If its another IR35 post, why haven't you posted it in the right area where all the other IR35 posts are?

If you had you'd see a sticky by Cojak outlining your options so we don't have to over them all again.
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...st2684385.html

Substitute your determination date for the December one in her post thought. That's your deadline.

Don't get tied up about when the end of your contract is. It ends when it needs to end. That's generally contracting life. Seeing it to the end just because you have right to is permie`esque thinking.

The best advice I've seen for everyone in your situation is...

Speak to someone to see if you can get a view on the determination before it's officially released.
If it's outside then fine
If it's inside then IMO you've got to try exit the client before the determination hits. Once you have an official determination you are inside then your troubles won't go away by leaving. You've been had.

Time is seriously running out for many. One month notice leaves less than 6 weeks before it all stats hitting the fan.

Can you afford do leave, do you have balls to do it etc? As Cojak says, that's all down to you. We can't help there, we can just give you an opinion on the potential situation.

[CompoundOverload]

If its another IR35 post, why haven't you posted it in the right area where all the other IR35 posts are?

Yeah, my bad - I've re-posted it.

[CompoundOverload]

If its another IR35 post, why haven't you posted it in the right area where all the other IR35 posts are?

If you had you'd see a sticky by Cojak outlining your options so we don't have to over them all again.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...st2684385.html

Substitute your determination date for the December one in her post thought. That's your deadline.

What can I do?

Basically, if you think that your client is going to decide that you are inside IR35, you need to consider whether to leave that client:

BEFORE 31st December 2019 (for assessment reasons - ultra-cautious)
or 24th February 2020 (monthly payment)
or 24th March (weekly payment)
or not bothering at all and sailing through 6th April 2020.

Thing is the first bullet point coincides with my leave date. However, their determination will be made 10th November....

[northernladuk]

So as I said.. Substitute your date for the December one.

Gonna PM Cojak to see if it's worth adding something in there to clarify.

[CompoundOverload]

If its another IR35 post, why haven't you posted it in the right area where all the other IR35 posts are?

If you had you'd see a sticky by Cojak outlining your options so we don't have to over them all again.
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...st2684385.html

Substitute your determination date for the December one in her post thought. That's your deadline.

Don't get tied up about when the end of your contract is. It ends when it needs to end. That's generally contracting life. Seeing it to the end just because you have right to is permie`esque thinking.

The best advice I've seen for everyone in your situation is...

Speak to someone to see if you can get a view on the determination before it's officially released.
If it's outside then fine
If it's inside then IMO you've got to try exit the client before the determination hits. Once you have an official determination you are inside then your troubles won't go away by leaving. You've been had.

Time is seriously running out for many. One month notice leaves less than 6 weeks before it all stats hitting the fan.

Can you afford do leave, do you have balls to do it etc? As Cojak says, that's all down to you. We can't help there, we can just give you an opinion on the potential situation.

So if they deem it inside and I have left before the determination is made, that is better than still being there I'm guessing? I would hazard a guess that HM will be interested (if they have a nose around) in those who are performing the roles when the determination was made, rather than those who were there before (and subsequently left) after it was made?

[ChimpMaster]

nother IR35 post!

Looking for a bit of advice on how to play out the below scenario....

Was advised by agency back in July that the client will be reviewing all contractors in due course and making assessments based on their roles to determine whether they are in or out of scope.

A follow up email was provided yesterday stating that in the next month this process will be concluded - circa 10th November. In the email, I was alarmed by the following "Our review of the legislation and initial findings indicate that a significant proportion of roles will be ‘In Scope’ of the regulations" which has made me slightly nervous. Despite my contract being confirmed by the agency as outside and having this reviewed separately by QDOS (who also agreed), I took out TLC365 insurance to be on the safe side.

I'm currently at the client until the end of the year, so timing wise it's not great as was hoping this wouldn't happen until the New Year when I'd be out of there. Now, if they get twitchy and deem the majority of people inside (as they don't want the pressure of having to face tax bills later on) this puts me in an unfavourable position. Do I hand my notice in now and leave before this decision is made, or do I wait it out and see what the outcome is only to leave 6 weeks after?

What are you worried about? The client (assuming private sector) won't have to put you under until April next year. They're probably just being proactive, which is more than can be said for my client.

So, if you're out of there by January then you have nothing to worry about.

And if you truly believe you are outside of IR35, I hope you have the real-life evidence to back this up. A contract with specific is not going to help much, and neither will the ODOS review, if your actual working conditions are much the same as a permie. If you have evidence, then present it to the client and help to sway the decision in your favour.

[northernladuk]

So if they deem it inside and I have left before the determination is made, that is better than still being there I'm guessing? I would hazard a guess that HM will be interested (if they have a nose around) in those who are performing the roles when the determination was made, rather than those who were there before (and subsequently left) after it was made?

We don't really know I think is the honest answer but look at a situation we have ongoing at present.

HMRC have written to 1600 GSK guys so they know who they are.
They get a list of the same people still there showing all inside (as GSK says everyone is going inside)

What would you do if you were HMRC?

As we don't know then it's down to your attitude to risk as cojak says.

[northernladuk]

Me personally? I've been involved with and very wary of IR35 for years and now it's all happening. I'm also not precious about gigs so I'd be out of there like a shot. Cojak has indicated the same. Not sure if I've seen many other personal opinions to quote yet.

If that helps at all.

Edit : I did say awhile ago I would have stayed and fought it from inside but I've definitely changed my mind on that.

[CompoundOverload]

We don't really know I think is the honest answer but look at a situation we have ongoing at present.

HMRC have written to 1600 GSK guys so they know who they are.
They get a list of the same people still there showing all inside (as GSK says everyone is going inside)

What would you do if you were HMRC?

As we don't know then it's down to your attitude to risk as cojak says.

It's the best trap for them as everyone still there after an inside determination is fair game.

I'm very risk averse, so i think if the internal contact is unable to defer the determination until the 31st Dec, i am ready to pull the trigger and leave in a months time.

Thanks for your input it's really appreciated!