Finance Bill 2019-20 draft legislation

[vwdan]

Just as it happened in the PS:

Smart companies will make the effort/expense to go through the process and evaluate the status of it's contractors, as a result they will get the cream of the crop next time they need resources.

"Smart" companies with deep pockets will hire MSP/SI to provide the resources at 2-3xcost and significant admin overhead.

Stupid companies will "save" effort/expense by blanket "inside IR35" for all contractors, as a result they will get the dregs of skill pool and/or pay against the odds for some decent contractors that are desperate and will jump ship as soon as they find an "outside IR35" role.

Very stupid companies will side step the issue by removing all contractors, as a result they will have to hire a huge wave of permies. Even on a good day it's hard to find decently skilled permies, imagine having to hire whole teams. As a consequence their projects and IT operations will suffer massively.

This is still pretty much where my vague optimism lies. They can change all the rules they like, but the desire for high quality people isn't going to go away, nor is the desire for temporary/project based staff.

I think we're entering a new era of what contracting is, for sure, but it's not like all those projects and requirements are going anywhere after April. I will be thoroughly pissed off if I'm not able to carry on conducting my affairs as a business, though.

[northernladuk]

Couple of years of carnage until clients work out they don't have much to fear let's remember they can't win a case at tribunal.


Can someone confirm this: organisation X has 2000 outside contractors on book HRMC has to take each case/contract to FTT if they disagree?

Don't we end up where we are now HMRC having to litigate 1000's of cases which they don't have the money for smoke and mirrors on their part.

No. The idea is that it will be a client led dispute process. I shouldn't think anyone knows how that will work and what happens if it's not resolved so likely to have to wait and see on that one.

It's in the documentation provided somewhere but found it quicker on here.

IR35 contractor tax reforms crawl closer to UK private sector with second consultation • The Register

[vwdan]

Forgot to add, my real big and genuine concern is no long being able to compete for away-from-home contracts. If I can't make London worthwhile, then I'm not in a good place to say the least.

[Guesstimator]

All as expected really.

The only saving grace that I foresee engendering a different mindset when compared with the PS is that PrivSec projects are (usually, not say all the time) driven by an actual business to get something done and generate more money/efficiency (ergo money)...maybe a better way of putting it is that the perception is that that's their purpose.
Anything impacting on that can loosen the purse strings/apply pressure to determine role status and working practices as outside.
I don't think that'll play out immediately, but it'll happen to a certain degree.

Contrast that with PS where lack of funds means they're happy for any excuse to reduce expenditure, and time overruns or missed milestones don't hit the bottom line in the same way (save for critical areas like the NHS).

[swamp]

The 2017 public sector changes were a complete panic, but generally ended well. The likes of QDOS have now been providing solutions to agencies and end users in the public sector for three years, and the private sector rollout will probably be much smoother.

[poorautojobber]

No. The idea is that it will be a client led dispute process. I shouldn't think anyone knows how that will work and what happens if it's not resolved so likely to have to wait and see on that one.

It's in the documentation provided somewhere but found it quicker on here.

IR35 contractor tax reforms crawl closer to UK private sector with second consultation • The Register

Sorry didn't explain myself well. If HMRC disagree that the outside decisions the engager has made are incorrect and take them to ftt do they have to take each individual contract?

I.e. 2000 cases to ftt for 2000 decisions.

My reasoning is if engagers cannot blanket then neither can HMRC and so we end up where we are now in that when HMRC take a case against a psc to ftt they in general fail.

[JohntheBike]

Sorry didn't explain myself well. If HMRC disagree that the outside decisions the engager has made are incorrect and take them to ftt do they have to take each individual contract?

I.e. 2000 cases to ftt for 2000 decisions.

My reasoning is if engagers cannot blanket then neither can HMRC and so we end up where we are now in that when HMRC take a case against a psc to ftt they in general fail.

that would seem to be a logical assumption, but logic doesn't work with HMRC.

[boxingbantz]

This isn't great news but I'm not worried. I work in the Public Sector for a very well known organisation and I was deemed outside by them. My working practices also put paid to that. Only people who need to be worried are those who probably know they are inside but claim they are outside like support staff and project managers who go from project to project...

If you are at a company to do a specific job with a particular skillset, I can see how they can deem you 'inside' and there will be a lot of challenges to it.

[swamp]

that would seem to be a logical assumption, but logic doesn't work with HMRC.

And they will come up against an agency that has been backed by a strong accountancy insurance package, who will be no pushovers.

[northernladuk]

This isn't great news but I'm not worried. I work in the Public Sector for a very well known organisation and I was deemed outside by them. My working practices also put paid to that. Only people who need to be worried are those who probably know they are inside but claim they are outside like support staff and project managers who go from project to project...

If you are at a company to do a specific job with a particular skillset, I can see how they can deem you 'inside' and there will be a lot of challenges to it.

For now you do. You are in a temp gig, not a perm job.