NHS - no more outside IR35

[LondonManc]

Their ill preparation for this is quite shocking to be honest.

Says a lot about the state of the NHS and it's got nothing to do with the people HMRC have decided to victimise.

This is more about HMRC being skint and being unable to force companies to take permies on and get them paying business NICs. If there was some sort of contingent work levy (for contractors and consultants) imposed on businesses, then we wouldn't be feeling the full force of HMRC's tax grab hammer. That said, businesses would run with a smaller contingent workforce rather than take on the same number.

[Manwell Pablo]

You know this doesn't just affect the NHS right?

Yes thanks, you've read the title of the thread right?

[Barrygbr]

pointy finger

Just a thought.

If any of you voted for this rotten Tory government, thanks a lot (or should that be thanks for nothing). It's Tory government paranoia that has resulted in all this mess and aggravation.

My case specifics re working as a contractor outside IR35 was as follows. I worked as a locum for the NHS in mental health care. I used a company called IQ Contracts who used a variant of umbrella in which I received a small weekly wage (equivalent to national minimum wage) and the bulk of my money as a loan. This scheme was supposed to be backed by insurance in the event of a HMRC investigation. I used IQ for just short of 4 years and then changed to Bestpay for the final 10 months of my contracting period.

In the past few months I have been contacted by HMRC who informed me that the loan was classed as taxable and that I needed to provide self assessment for 2012-3, 13-4, 14-5 and 15-6. I have tried to contact IQ who have now shut up shop and are not contactable. They have provided details of two companies (dependent on year) who can help. I have contacted one for 2012-3 and am awaiting a response. The company who are supposed to be dealing with the other 3 years do not seem to exist. consequently, I am not able to submit as I am not able to access the info I need. I may have had this but being classed as employed I have not retained it. As a consequence I am now getting fines from HMRC and they will soon begin to charge interest at some inflated rate for non compliance. And until somebody provides me with the info I need I cannot submit. I have spoken to HMRC about this and to be candid, the could not give a flying toss. Now if I was Amazon, Starbucks, Google.......

Its a bit of a double whammy really, reduce contracting by offering more employed positions, cap remuneration for people still working as contractors and whack them over the head for past contracts (in some cases backdated 6 years which is as far as they can go due to statute of limitations).

All rather worrying really and I can see where this all leads. Consequently, I have ceased contracting period and am now looking to change my career and move overseas. I will not work for the crap money offered by the NHS (even as a contractor) if I then have to pay class 2 and NI. I will also not offer my developed and specialised skills for the new capped rates.

I am however very dismayed by the number of contractors who are taking all this crap, accepting wage capped roles as employees or accepting contractor positions at the new pay caped rates. Seems to me if we all stood up and said no, refusing to accept the crap (as above) that HMG and HMRC are lobbing at us, then we may just have a chance of defeating the new regime. As their are a significant number prepared to roll over, submitting and embracing the new regime then the rest of us have no chance whatsoever - and you know what that means!

[Andy Hallett]

Just a thought.

If any of you voted for this rotten Tory government, thanks a lot (or should that be thanks for nothing). It's Tory government paranoia that has resulted in all this mess and aggravation.

My case specifics re working as a contractor outside IR35 was as follows. I worked as a locum for the NHS in mental health care. I used a company called IQ Contracts who used a variant of umbrella in which I received a small weekly wage (equivalent to national minimum wage) and the bulk of my money as a loan. This scheme was supposed to be backed by insurance in the event of a HMRC investigation. I used IQ for just short of 4 years and then changed to Bestpay for the final 10 months of my contracting period.

In the past few months I have been contacted by HMRC who informed me that the loan was classed as taxable and that I needed to provide self assessment for 2012-3, 13-4, 14-5 and 15-6. I have tried to contact IQ who have now shut up shop and are not contactable. They have provided details of two companies (dependent on year) who can help. I have contacted one for 2012-3 and am awaiting a response. The company who are supposed to be dealing with the other 3 years do not seem to exist. consequently, I am not able to submit as I am not able to access the info I need. I may have had this but being classed as employed I have not retained it. As a consequence I am now getting fines from HMRC and they will soon begin to charge interest at some inflated rate for non compliance. And until somebody provides me with the info I need I cannot submit. I have spoken to HMRC about this and to be candid, the could not give a flying toss. Now if I was Amazon, Starbucks, Google.......

Its a bit of a double whammy really, reduce contracting by offering more employed positions, cap remuneration for people still working as contractors and whack them over the head for past contracts (in some cases backdated 6 years which is as far as they can go due to statute of limitations).

All rather worrying really and I can see where this all leads. Consequently, I have ceased contracting period and am now looking to change my career and move overseas. I will not work for the crap money offered by the NHS (even as a contractor) if I then have to pay class 2 and NI. I will also not offer my developed and specialised skills for the new capped rates.

I am however very dismayed by the number of contractors who are taking all this crap, accepting wage capped roles as employees or accepting contractor positions at the new pay caped rates. Seems to me if we all stood up and said no, refusing to accept the crap (as above) that HMG and HMRC are lobbing at us, then we may just have a chance of defeating the new regime. As their are a significant number prepared to roll over, submitting and embracing the new regime then the rest of us have no chance whatsoever - and you know what that means!

I am sorry to burst the bubble, but those type of schemes were always a risk and the old adage of "if it's too good to be true" applies. You took a gamble, you lost.

One assumes taxpayer money funded your training to become a mental health expert, but you were not happy to pay back into the pot.

The business I work for has been built on providing genuine entrepreneurs who have developed specialist skills into scarce markets, however you are exactly the sort of reason that this legislation is used as a blunt stick to beat the many.

All the best with the new career.

[Andy Hallett]

locum

a person who stands in temporarily for someone else of the same profession, especially a cleric or doctor.

[eek]

Through greed I joined a loan scheme and now wish to leave the country rather than pay back what I owed even though the NHS paid for my training.

Sorry to be blunt but I've paraphrased your post into a more readable version.

While there are a few people on here who will agree with you personally its you and people like you who have created this mess that is partly the reason the public sector changes were unavoidable....

[DotasScandal]

I am sorry to burst the bubble, but those type of schemes were always a risk and the old adage of "if it's too good to be true" applies. You took a gamble, you lost.

One assumes taxpayer money funded your training to become a mental health expert, but you were not happy to pay back into the pot.

The business I work for has been built on providing genuine entrepreneurs who have developed specialist skills into scarce markets, however you are exactly the sort of reason that this legislation is used as a blunt stick to beat the many.

All the best with the new career.

Judgemental, much?

You really don't do yourself any favors with this one, Andy.

[eek]

Judgemental, much?

You really don't do yourself any favors with this one, Andy.

It's swings and roundabouts. While some posters may dislike his response others will agree with him...

[Andy Hallett]

Judgemental, much?

You really don't do yourself any favors with this one, Andy.

It's my personal opinion. Like everything in life, nothing is black and white - this is just too grey for my liking. His argument is hypocritical in the extreme.

There were hundreds of schemes like this around at the time. I refused to trade with them, often at our companies detriment, because it was clear where it would end up.

[bobspud]

I am sorry to burst the bubble, but those type of schemes were always a risk and the old adage of "if it's too good to be true" applies. You took a gamble, you lost.

One assumes taxpayer money funded your training to become a mental health expert, but you were not happy to pay back into the pot.

The business I work for has been built on providing genuine entrepreneurs who have developed specialist skills into scarce markets, however you are exactly the sort of reason that this legislation is used as a blunt stick to beat the many.

All the best with the new career.

Hang on...

I seem to remember a fair few of your entrepreneurial collegues were stealing vast sums of margin on health sector locum staff...

Maybe if those pigs were not so far in the troff there would have been enough money to share for the front line staff and paying full taxes would have been easier to suffer for them.

I get the hindsight point about umbrella company schemes but many of the ones taken in to them never wanted to be using agency's in the first place.

I value the work you have put in over the past months. That was an un needed stone to chuck.