NHS - no more outside IR35

[northernladuk]

I mean this might sound naive here, but why on earth don't they just adjust the contracts to comply with outside IR35 regulations......I would of thought that'd be relatively simple. Then if HMRC want to investigate they'd have to physically investigate you which lets face it is not something they make a habit of doing that often!

Because working practices trump the contract. If they alter the contract and get caught with incorrect WP someone is on the hook for it so it's about risk aversion levels.

[Manwell Pablo]

Because working practices trump the contract. If they alter the contract and get caught with incorrect WP someone is on the hook for it so it's about risk aversion levels.

Their looking into mine at the moment and letting me know, I did post awhile I but still being moderated, fortunately contract ends just before all this kicks off so I have the cut and run option. They've suggested going over to Umbrella before the changes, that just looks like a big hey HMRC look at this sign to me, also possibly ending contract and them opening a new role up a few weeks later, seems more feasible, not really sure Umbrella all the way out here is for me though.

[LondonManc]

Their looking into mine at the moment and letting me know, I did post awhile I but still being moderated, fortunately contract ends just before all this kicks off so I have the cut and run option. They've suggested going over to Umbrella before the changes, that just looks like a big hey HMRC look at this sign to me, also possibly ending contract and them opening a new role up a few weeks later, seems more feasible, not really sure Umbrella all the way out here is for me though.

I'd stay with limited until you finish your current outside one, then clean break and, making sure that your new contract is worded much more inside go umbrella. Having the same word for word contract as when you were outside would look bad.

Hand on heart, do you feel that your current contract should be inside, when taken with the working practices?

[Manwell Pablo]

I'd stay with limited until you finish your current outside one, then clean break and, making sure that your new contract is worded much more inside go umbrella. Having the same word for word contract as when you were outside would look bad.

Hand on heart, do you feel that your current contract should be inside, when taken with the working practices?

That's what I am planning on doing. It has to be a clean break I think, I'd avoid scrutiny altogether then........Unless drastic changes are made to the current contract and it actually IS outside and covers me. I'd best get some letterheads and business cards printed up in that case I guess in case they come hunting !

Bit of a grey area to be honest, I work on a project, I have skills no one else here has, I can work from home if I want, I have temporary ID not company ID etc etc. But at the same time they should really employ a perm to do SOME of the work I do, in fact they are going through recruitment for that right now.

Every tool and questionnaire at the moment seems ridiculously harsh and being outside next to impossible, to the extent where i just took one and tried my best to get an outside outcome (lying and putting in what I though would fall outside) and still borderline fell inside. So bearing that in mind, I'd be in I guess!

As I've said it's a massive shame they really need me for a few more months and I don't mind it here. But the end was in sight anyway so for me it's not much of a big deal.....its going to destroy them though unless I get someone trained up to do parts of my job that are more perm workers jobs, even then project is going to take a hit and they will have no one to produce anything other than routine reports. Such a waste.


EDIT: "Nervous Newbie" aint that the truth haha

[WordIsBond]

Bit of a grey area to be honest, I work on a project, I have skills no one else here has, I can work from home if I want, I have temporary ID not company ID etc etc. But at the same time they should really employ a perm to do SOME of the work I do, in fact they are going through recruitment for that right now.

Sounds pretty good to me. The WFH "if I want" is very helpful, so is "skills no one else here has," that means they can't point to an employee who is doing the same thing. Whether they "should really employ a perm" doesn't seem like a big issue to me, if they haven't they haven't. As long as it is defined as part of a project it doesn't seem like an issue.

Perhaps you could sign two contracts with them, one for the project and one for perm stuff. The project is outside, the perm stuff is inside. I had two separate contracts with one of my clients for a while. Paid my salary and pension contributions out of the Inside IR35 contract.

[Manwell Pablo]

Sounds pretty good to me. The WFH "if I want" is very helpful, so is "skills no one else here has," that means they can't point to an employee who is doing the same thing. Whether they "should really employ a perm" doesn't seem like a big issue to me, if they hyaven't they haven't. As long as it is defined as part of a project it doesn't seem like an issue.

Perhaps you could sign two contracts with them, one for the project and one for perm stuff. The project is outside, the perm stuff is inside. I had two separate contracts with one of my clients for a while. Paid my salary and pension contributions out of the Inside IR35 contract.

Well I Thought that. But as I say every questionnaire I fill in says inside, it does then offer to sell me a recovery package for thirty quid so obviously sceptical not the word but still.....I guess all will become clearer when the official one is released.

It's only 9 months I guess. Most of my rainy day money was earnt in a previous contract which I'm very confident would be outside unless they are being completely unreasonable, and the company I worked for.....do you know it's just come to me they wouldn't they wouldn't even be PS technically, and they have been liquidated.

Interesting suggestion might look into that thank you.

[Andy Hallett]

I hope all these NHS organisations that are declaring their direct contractors inside have budgeted for the additional 14.3% Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy, most of the ones I have been speaking to certainly haven't!

[LondonManc]

I hope all these NHS organisations that are declaring their direct contractors inside have budgeted for the additional 14.3% Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy, most of the ones I have been speaking to certainly haven't!

So, this £440m saving will come from a circular reference of the employers NI and apprenticeship levy too?

This is hilarious.

[Manwell Pablo]

I hope all these NHS organisations that are declaring their direct contractors inside have budgeted for the additional 14.3% Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy, most of the ones I have been speaking to certainly haven't!

Their ill preparation for this is quite shocking to be honest.

Says a lot about the state of the NHS and it's got nothing to do with the people HMRC have decided to victimise.

[northernladuk]

Says a lot about the state of the NHS and it's got nothing to do with the people HMRC have decided to victimise.

You know this doesn't just affect the NHS right?