The Decision Tool :)

[sal]

I do so hope that all this effort just winds up in a situation where clients are as invested in avoiding IR35 as we are. It'd be pretty ******* hilarious if the end result is loads more contractors in a stronger outside position.

RoS is a load of crap, anyway. If I hire a builder because I trust his work, I'm probably not going to be super happy if he says "I'm off on holiday, my brothers mate is coming round to fill in."

PSB now do have vested interest in avoiding IR35 as it will cost them money, by either paying higher rates or getting their projects wrecked.

Agencies also have vested interest in retaining PSBs that are happy to do outside IR35 determination.

Agree that RoS is load of crap and a sham, but if it's the silver bullet, it's just one item of the working practices that you have to educate the clientCo about, not a complex web of multiple other variables.

[vwdan]

True, but its a better way of doing it then just bringing someone because you want a holiday... Firstly you are giving the end client a valid reason for that guy coming in without being interviewed (he's better at x than I am) and secondly it gives the customer the perception of a better delivery...

Interesting point. I'll gladly lose a day every now and again to drag a colleague in for a hand.

Oh and from memory I don't remember seeing the subcontracting question before the substitution one when you answer no to the has this person started question....[/QUOTE]

Oh, I always did it as started.

[chineseJohn]

As of 12:00 the tool is broken.....

Bad CSRF token found in query String

[rl4engc]

Not been involved in all this as I'm Private Sector, but assuming Hector tries to come after us at some point too, doesn't it just centre around Right of Substitution? My contract allows this.

i.e.

I'm not an office holder at the end client, if I can't do a days work, I can substitude MyMateDave Ltd to do it on my behalf. MyMateDave invoices MyLtdCo and I have to pay his company. Client would have to be OK with this.

But in reality, MyMateDave is busy on another contract, so this situation would never arise. (I'm not required to be able to provide a substitution.

Am I missing something? What's all the fuss about, is this designed to root out lifers in the Public Sector that hold office and have had a seat on the gravy train done so many years?

[BoredBloke]

That bit in quotes is a right scam - so the fact I use my own laptop and specialist software is immaterial unless I buy it during the engagement?

Still got Outside, answering honestly for my current gig, but I don't like some of those additional qualifications they've popped in.

I suppose one possible outcome from all this (Once it's all gone wrong, of course) is that people do actually start engaging contractors 'properly'. More flexibility, more project based pricing etc.

Totally agree - its like a builder replacing all his tools for each and every job. The test should be do you supply your own kit for the role. On my current role I've been allocated one of their laptops but I always take mine into the office also and use it quite often. Obviously their machine is used most, but that's down to their network restrictions etc.

[northernladuk]

Totally agree - its like a builder replacing all his tools for each and every job. The test should be do you supply your own kit for the role. On my current role I've been allocated one of their laptops but I always take mine into the office also and use it quite often. Obviously their machine is used most, but that's down to their network restrictions etc.

I can't see how that situation can pass a use your own tools. You bring them in by choice and make a conscious effort to use them to 'look' like you are. Bottom line is client gives you kit that does what you need. If you tick that you use your own kit it's a bit woolly to say the least.

[BoredBloke]

The substitution clause is a total sham. No company is going to allow some random body onto site without them having had certain background checks carried out and passed. So on that basis the client has the right to knock back the substitute.

[BoredBloke]

I can't see how that situation can pass a use your own tools. You bring them in by choice and make a conscious effort to use them to 'look' like you are. Bottom line is client gives you kit that does what you need. If you tick that you use your own kit it's a bit woolly to say the least.

Actually after an Office 'upgrade' using my kit was the only option for a few weeks because of their bodged build which was rolled out to all their laptops.

I often do my dev work on my machine because its faster but day to day stuff and anything requiring the network is carried out using theirs. Also when using the net to find solutions to problems, their over zealous blocking of some sites means it's easier to tether my laptop to the company phone and use that. Each day I'm in the office, both machines are out and powered up.

[northernladuk]

Actually after an Office 'upgrade' using my kit was the only option for a few weeks because of their bodged build which was rolled out to all their laptops.

I often do my dev work on my machine because its faster but day to day stuff and anything requiring the network is carried out using theirs. Also when using the net to find solutions to problems, their over zealous blocking of some sites means it's easier to tether my laptop to the company phone and use that. Each day I'm in the office, both machines are out and powered up.

I get that.. but I'm still not sure that's not good enough to cover it. The tools they offer may not be as good but they do what you need and you've been given them. You use the kit because it's a bit better at some stuff. Not sure that's going to fulfill what the question is after.

[BoredBloke]

I get that.. but I'm still not sure that's not good enough to cover it. The tools they offer may not be as good but they do what you need and you've been given them. You use the kit because it's a bit better at some stuff. Not sure that's going to fulfill what the question is after.

I get what you are saying, but the question should be more about your ability to supply your own tools. There are plenty of places where the client won't allow you to use your own equipment for security reasons etc. It's somewhat unfair to use the clients preference as to the source of the equipment as a determining factor for the contract.

FWIW they don't provide phones. So my company registered mobile is used all the time.