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Finance Bill: relationship with end-client

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    Finance Bill: relationship with end-client

    s61M(1)(d) states:
    the circumstances are such that—
    (i) if the services were provided under a contract directly
    between the client and the worker, the worker would
    be regarded for income tax purposes as an employee
    of the client

    This is the section that hypothesizes on the relationship between a "worker" and an end-client if the PSC did not exist. We have all seen the gov statement that it "wishes to level the playing field as it is unfair that some people pay much less tax for doing essentially the same job as a similar employee". What the gov conveniently ignores is that it is not the same "job" at all. The extent of risk involved on the PSC side is actually so much greater that it is embarrassing for the gov to make such a statement. We have the obvious differences such as pension, holiday pay, employment rights etc but the main difference is the assumption of contract performance risk.

    PSC contracts typically assume financial risks in the event of non-performance, direct compensation or rectification costs to be borne by the PSC. If the PSC is "stripped away" then which rights and obligations remain? The rights and obligations remain as per the original contract but are now incumbent upon you as a sole-trader which means all your personal assets are on the line. Compare this to the risk of being an employee.

    For all properly constructed PSC company's the answer to the question posed by the legislation is that the relationship remains either one of a business to business relationship on a sole-trader basis, (for which business expenses such as travel, accommodation and subsistence are allowed), or no relationship exists at all as you would never accept the risks being imposed under such a hypothetical situation.

    To simply look at working practices while conveniently ignoring which party carries the risk of contract performance may be a fatal mistake in law.

    #2
    Are you making a point or asking a question or just pasting stuff you've found?

    What are we discussing here?
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
      Are you making a point or asking a question or just pasting stuff you've found?

      What are we discussing here?
      Straws and how to clutch on to them....

      Between that and his attitude I can see little reason to talk to him...
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #4
        My point is that the HMRC guidance seems to assume that if you strip away the PSC then the remaining worker must be similar to an employee and therefore IR35 is triggered. My view is that it is nowhere near as simple as that.

        These were my own thoughts to bring about discussion on the topic (most likely for people to tell me that HMRC would never do anything other than abide by the law and that their guidance is always correct and we should all just fold).
        Last edited by breaktwister; 14 February 2017, 16:11.

        Comment


          #5
          There is absolutely nothing wrong with clutching at straws where the law is concerned. I have seen cases won and lost on a single word.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by breaktwister View Post
            My point is that the HMRC guidance seems to assume that if you strip away the PSC then the remaining worker must be similar to an employee and therefore IR35 is triggered. My view is that it is nowhere near that simple.
            No tulip sherlock. But how can you argue it if you don't understand what you are (as per the Yasmin car crash)?

            These were my own thoughts to bring about discussion on the topic (most likely for people to tell me that HMRC would never do anything other than abide by the law and that their guidance is always correct and we should all just fold).
            But they aren't saying this. They are bringing out a tool to help determination. If you fail that then you yes HMRC will do that?

            Jeez.. This is just painful.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              You starting threads which are deliberately going over what we have been discussing since last summer.

              What are you trying to get out of this? If you have an issue with your client's interpretation of the new rules then talk to them as you will get more out of it, instead of starting multiple pointless threads.
              "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

              Comment


                #8
                FFS, this is bordering on spam. You have a woeful understanding of the law in general and the intermediaries legislation, specifically. The clue is in its position within the ITEPA. It's about the taxation of intermediaries when the hypothetical contract between the individual and the end client resembles one of employment, in the round. It doesn't have direct implications beyond the scope of the ITEPA, i.e. tax (at least until someone demonstrates otherwise, but there is a longstanding distinction between tax and employment law), and I have no idea what you're talking about w/r to this sole trader nonsense.

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                  #9
                  38
                  The Chunt of Chunts.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post
                    and I have no idea what you're talking about w/r to this sole trader nonsense.
                    It's not my problem if you cannot understand a simple argument.

                    Comment

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