IR35 PS - So anyone had the discussion yet?

[LondonManc]

Would this determination be set in stone or could they change their mind at some point after you have committed to stay?

You'd need it in writing I'd expect, along with any new contract offer and a working practices confirmation.

[RonBW]

You'd need it in writing I'd expect, along with any new contract offer and a working practices confirmation.

But as JLJ showed, just because there is an outside declaration at one point, that doesn't mean that it won't change later in the engagement.

[northernladuk]

But as JLJ showed, just because there is an outside declaration at one point, that doesn't mean that it won't change later in the engagement.

Correct which is why people need.to.understand IR35 and be aware throughout their engagement rather than ticking boxes and becoming complacent.

[sal]

Correct which is why people need.to.understand IR35 and be aware throughout their engagement rather than ticking boxes and becoming complacent.

They also shouldn't soil their pants and overreact, based on fear and misinformation. What are the chances of ClientCo changing their mind mid contract? IMHO about the same as the chances of a rate cut or early termination or agency going bust etc. It will only affect your last payment, because as soon as you don't get your invoice paid net instead of gross - you just leave, potentially seek full payment based on the paperwork signed at the beginning.

I'm on weekly invoicing and payment within couple of days, so 2 weeks in arrears tops. Now do I drop the contract now and risk potentially way more than 2 weeks on the bench, or stick it out based on ClientCo assurances my engagement falls outside IR35 as far as they are concerned and will be declared so with HMRC? Not a hard choice for me...

[psychocandy]

Agreed, but if that's the primary motivation, then it isn't a decision to be left with the PSB and agency in the current circumstances, it's one that requires definitive action by the contractor to eliminate the "worry", as far as possible. TBF, it sounds as though that's what PC has done.

Yep going forward getting stung for tax/NI for the next 3 months would be unfortunate of course. But a crap income is better than no income (even better than jsa).

BUT, a crap income for 3 months followed by a hefty tax bill when client decides I'm inside IR35 and HMRC wonder what I've been doing the last 2 years is just not on. When its likely to be well over £50K.

I did toy with the idea of paying for QDOS TLC35 insurance. They WILL cover you for the retrospective stuff so its an option. At under £400 it wasnt bad either (although you'd have to keep paying for a few years).

In the end though, the client/agency really peed me off with their attitude and 2 years + is way long enough for one gig. So it was an ideal time to leave - I just couldnt be bothered with the potential hassle.

[psychocandy]

Correct which is why people need.to.understand IR35 and be aware throughout their engagement rather than ticking boxes and becoming complacent.

And as I've found out both agencies and client are clueless. Like I said before, I work for consultancy on site at PS.

All the agency kept saying is:-

1. You're not contracted to PS your contracted to consultancy so it doesn't apply - WRONG. NO-ONE KNOWS YET FOR SURE.
2. The client (the consultancy) has said you're outside IR35 - WRONG. IT LOOKS LIKE THE END PS CLIENT MAY DECIDE.
3. PS client won't want to get involved because they'd have to pay NI then - WRONG. THE AGENCY WOULD HAVE TO PAY AND PS CLIENT WILL DO WHATEVER SUITS THEM.

[psychocandy]

They also shouldn't soil their pants and overreact, based on fear and misinformation. What are the chances of ClientCo changing their mind mid contract? IMHO about the same as the chances of a rate cut or early termination or agency going bust etc. It will only affect your last payment, because as soon as you don't get your invoice paid net instead of gross - you just leave, potentially seek full payment based on the paperwork signed at the beginning.

I'm on weekly invoicing and payment within couple of days, so 2 weeks in arrears tops. Now do I drop the contract now and risk potentially way more than 2 weeks on the bench, or stick it out based on ClientCo assurances my engagement falls outside IR35 as far as they are concerned and will be declared so with HMRC? Not a hard choice for me...

Massive IMHO when someone at client suddenly wakes up and thinks "Whoa we need to get away from this one".

[jamesbrown]

I just couldnt be bothered with the potential hassle.

Good decision IMO...

[SlipTheJab]

Good decision IMO...

+1 Not worth the risk PC.

[sal]

Massive IMHO when someone at client suddenly wakes up and thinks "Whoa we need to get away from this one".

This is a sensitive decision and will likely go to the absolute top management at the PSB. Once someone there has the balls decides to take the "risk", who is going to overrule it at a later stage unless a change in management happens. At present PSB faces no financial liability for making the wrong decision, unless something makes its way in the PSB<>Agency contract or the contractors are direct. So reversal of course makes no sense (i know that PSBs are not known for being racional).