Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[teapot418]

Hmm you seem to have added words from a edited comment....

Don't know what the delay was - probably out of range on my phone when I replied to the comment.

[Fred Bloggs]

Sadly the stupidity of certain IPSE members and directors does that to me - some have been caught attacking me via sockie accounts (their Vice Chairman is a prime example).

Don't worry I'm doing actual work for the rest of the week so I won't be here.

I may or may return afterwards..

Remember this doesn't directly concern me I'm only posting here because no one else was doing it and thought someone better had - the people who should be doing so definitely aren't...

Don't give up. Too many people not standing up to be counted. You are doing a great job.

[NHS1979]

All of these threads are much appreciated. There's so little advice out there, and the threats to contractors and their families from retrospective tax grabs is making a lot of people sick with anxiety.

There are dozens of contractors in my building all wondering if they have to leave, or if they should say yes to their NHS clients who are desperate for them to stay. The received wisdom is 'even if you have new contract, even if you have different job title and JD, even if you go perm, even if they say you will be outside IR35' you will get stuck on a HMRC hit list and face investigation, so better to leave and reappear somewhere else with a different assignment regardless of IR35 status.

[teapot418]

... even if they say you will be outside IR35' ...

If they (the client) are prepared to commit to that contractually, then that should be safe.

[Fred Bloggs]

All of these threads are much appreciated. There's so little advice out there, and the threats to contractors and their families from retrospective tax grabs is making a lot of people sick with anxiety.

There are dozens of contractors in my building all wondering if they have to leave, or if they should say yes to their NHS clients who are desperate for them to stay. The received wisdom is 'even if you have new contract, even if you have different job title and JD, even if you go perm, even if they say you will be outside IR35' you will get stuck on a HMRC hit list and face investigation, so better to leave and reappear somewhere else with a different assignment regardless of IR35 status.

Exactly how are HMRC going to resource all these thousands of investigations that can then take years to conclude? On top of that, there is a vanishingly small chance of any retrospective action. Where are all the staff coming from? HMRC have been shedding experienced staff the last couple of years. My impression is that they can barely function on a day to day basis, never mind launch thousands of multi year investigations. You're simply adding to the hysteria IMO.

[eek]

Exactly how are HMRC going to resource all these thousands of investigations that can then take years to conclude? On top of that, there is a vanishingly small chance of any retrospective action. Where are all the staff coming from? HMRC have been shedding experienced staff the last couple of years. My impression is that they can barely function on a day to day basis, never mind launch thousands of multi year investigations. You're simply adding to the hysteria IMO.

The counter argument to that is that previously identifying ir35 cases for investigation has been time consuming, hard work and with little chance of success. Given that come April there is a data set of contractors where their client has deemed them inside when asked, it's highly possible that they will target that list.

The only unknown is how likely are they to do that and sadly I expect that it's a very high probability.

The next step after that is to think what the report would look like and personally I suspect it will be based on agency so the advice has to be if you are concerned and you have been in a contract a long time now would be a good time to take a break and move to a different agency which probably means a different client

The final thing to add is that all this is based on an obvious question being asked "if they are inside ir35 now surely they were before" and to be blunt I really cannot see how someone important isn't going to be asking that question at some point especially if chaos is occurring and they want to distract others.

And with that I'm probably out of here for a bit. 2 weeks in Austria doing my new day job.

[Fred Bloggs]

I disagree. Case law says that actual working practices trump anything written in a contract, there can be no option other than investigate each contract individually. There are zero precedents for what you describe. Two guys sat next to each other with two client supervisors can have very different outcomes.

[eek]

I disagree. Case law says that actual working practices trump anything written in a contract, there can be no option other than investigate each contract individually. There are zero precedents for what you describe. Two guys sat next to each other with two client supervisors can have very different outcomes.

Equally possible. However all hmrc need to do is to send a letter or two and kick off an enquiry. Yep they may bin a lot of them after a while but even the beginning of an enquiry is stressful

The thing is we don't know. What I do know is that the set of contractors who are most likely to know if something was planned resigned last Friday - which to me is the reason why I'm so concerned.

[SueEllen]

I disagree. Case law says that actual working practices trump anything written in a contract, there can be no option other than investigate each contract individually. There are zero precedents for what you describe. Two guys sat next to each other with two client supervisors can have very different outcomes.

It is not about being caught it is about being investigated.

Not everyone has tax insurance so has experts to help them to fight this.

[Semtex]

It is not about being caught it is about being investigated.

Not everyone has tax insurance so has experts to help them to fight this.

Lets flip this.

Eek is probably right, HMRC will send out blanket letters and see what returns they can muster from this campaign. Investigations costs HMRC a lot of money with small returns.

Caught, Investigations, all pretty much the same and HMRC will pick carefully IMHO