Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[malvolio]

So heres a question.

PSO decides your outside of IR35 and relays this message to Agency.

Agency continue to pay you via your PSC as previously.

There is nothing in the current legislation that puts legal liability on the PSO to absolutely have "got that right".

Other than the agency have to "accept" that determination, which they may be jumpy about doing as they are liable for any tax.

So surely a PSO can "short circuit" this all by determining people to be outside of IR35?

Um yes. And...?

[daemon]

Um yes. And...?

Just making sure my understanding was clear.

So a PSO with some key contractors they dont want to lose, they simply declare them outside of IR35?

Theres no downside for the PSO, only an upside.

[LondonManc]

Just making sure my understanding was clear.

So a PSO with some key contractors they dont want to lose, they simply declare them outside of IR35?

Theres no downside for the PSO, only an upside.

Yep. There's a massive legal wrangle where DBA in PSO 1 is outside and PSO 2 has a DBA who is inside though, especially if they have similar contracts and working practices.

[eek]

Just making sure my understanding was clear.

So a PSO with some key contractors they dont want to lose, they simply declare them outside of IR35?

Theres no downside for the PSO, only an upside.

The downside for the management of the PSO is external pressure which means thy can't just declare everyone is outside. Worse there will be places where the PSO ends up with awkward news stories because they are not following the new rules.

Its worth remembering that the first real stories are coming from TfL where the new mayor has stated that he didn't want people paid off payroll.... and its that pressure that will determine how far the PSO goes in determining how much they follow the new rules.

[LondonManc]

The downside for the management of the PSO is external pressure which means thy can't just declare everyone is outside. Worse there will be places where the PSO ends up with awkward news stories because they are not following the new rules.

Its worth remembering that the first real stories are coming from TfL where the new mayor has stated that he didn't want people paid off payroll....

Nuff said. He shouldn't be getting involved with it at all.

[NHS1979]

So, I'm back on the market post 5th April. Current outside-IR35 ps contract ends 31.3.17, with early payment. The client has been asked to make a determination on my role by agency - I've been assured that unless I sign a new contract the results of this determination will not go to HMRC.

Contracting for 2.5 years via PSC via agencies all with different end clients - 1) private sector client for 6 months outside IR35, 2) ps client 9 months outside IR35, 3) ps client 9 months outside ir35, 4) current pa client 3 months outside ir35.

If I work with ps post-6th April, accepting outside IR35 determination is best, and contract protects you from consequences of wrong determination made by client/agency, is it best to contract inside-IR35 jobs via an umbrella? Is there anything else I need to do to mitigate the risks of retrospective hmrc?

[seeourbee]

Get insurance

[northernladuk]

Pray

[Semtex]

So, I'm back on the market post 5th April. Current outside-IR35 ps contract ends 31.3.17, with early payment. The client has been asked to make a determination on my role by agency - I've been assured that unless I sign a new contract the results of this determination will not go to HMRC.

Contracting for 2.5 years via PSC via agencies all with different end clients - 1) private sector client for 6 months outside IR35, 2) ps client 9 months outside IR35, 3) ps client 9 months outside ir35, 4) current pa client 3 months outside ir35.

If I work with ps post-6th April, accepting outside IR35 determination is best, and contract protects you from consequences of wrong determination made by client/agency, is it best to contract inside-IR35 jobs via an umbrella? Is there anything else I need to do to mitigate the risks of retrospective hmrc?

Think you are similar to me.

I take it you are leaving your existing outside IR35 PS gig before April 5th (payments etc before this date).

If so, then options are

1 new PS gig (new agency) inside IR35 (Brolly or your LTD - I would use a brolly)
2 new PS gig (new agency) outside IR35 - continue to use your LTD and get insurance (contract and WP reviews)
3 Private sector gig.

I am leaving my PS gig shortly and have secured anew role (1) and also have been offered another role I went for (3)

so now I have the choice of PS or Private sector.

Like bloody buses

[Andy Hallett]

So heres a question.

PSO decides your outside of IR35 and relays this message to Agency.

Agency continue to pay you via your PSC as previously.

There is nothing in the current legislation that puts legal liability on the PSO to absolutely have "got that right".

Other than the agency have to "accept" that determination, which they may be jumpy about doing as they are liable for any tax.

So surely a PSO can "short circuit" this all by determining people to be outside of IR35?

My understanding is that the PSO has a 'duty of care' under the final legislation to prevent this. Should they play fast and lose with the determinations the transfer of debt would logically go to them, also the agency would pass the liability on in the form of a negligence claim.

In my experience, a few PSEC managers bend the rules, none like to break the rules.