HMRC Consultative Document - marketed tax avoidance schemes

[varunksingh]

Your feeling is probably right.

The document says the 43,000 cases add up to £7Bn. Quite a nice windfall ahead of a general election.

It if it has to be paid back it will another governments responsibility and who knows at that time in the name of saving public purse they come up with another retrospective legislation and refuse to pay back. Money given to government I guess will be gone for a very long time if not forever.

[ssbahra]

HMRC:The vast majority of notices are expected to be issued over the course of 2014-15 and 2015-16.
These measures are expected to prompt a range of different legal challenges including judicial review proceedings, an increase in closure applications to the Tribunal and disputed enforcement activity. Flexible legal resource options are being considered to meet the expected demands of this work. This legal resource will be increased and adapted depending on the scale and scope of any legal challenges.
The Government will ensure that Departments have the necessary resources to deliver this key policy successfully.

3 years to send out notices, total dumbwits!

[malvolio]

EBTs have always been legal and have a valid purpose. The question is, are you eligible to use one. If you get your head around that, then HMRC's position, and how you defend your own position, makes a lot more sense.

[vern19]

British Tax Authorities Just Out-Mafia'd The IRS

Even the Americans are amazed at HMRC's new punitive measures

British Tax Authorities Just Out-Mafia'd The IRS | Zero Hedge

[varunksingh]

https://w ww.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_boyle_case

I read the FOI thing. States they deem 4000 cases similar enough to warrant up front payments between now and 2016. No numbers available after but 15000 is touted as potential other cases.

Having spent the last few days reading god knows how much on the internet I find myself in the same position as searching google for vba answers. Lots of guff and opinions with facts hard to filter and find.

This is how I see things.

- Correctly structured EBTs were probably legal
- HMRC knew this, couldn't do anything about it, so changed the law in Dec 2010. People stopped using EBTs
- Some cases linked to EBTs have been won by HMRC (Boyle)
- HMRC are proposing that where cases are similar they won't waste time with legalities but just make upfront demands.
- From the FOI above, 4000 cases are mentioned - that sounds like more than one scheme's worth of people (especially given that not all people in a given scheme are ever contacted - I know people in schemes I used that haven't - I have)
- HMRC decide what cases are similar, you have no right to challenge this
- As per the FOI, they can't quote numbers for future years, presumably because they have to wait for the outcome of tribunals for other schemes - presumably better structured ones with better representation - and with an appetite for appeal
- Most of us are probably not going to be getting upfront demands in the next 2-3 years
- there is no guarantee we ever will (unless HMRC really do deem all EBT similar - and I can't believe this wouldn't attract some kind of challenge)
- From the talk of HMRC throwing money at legal teams to fight the cases, this backs up my thought that they're going after schemes one by one. Each EBT that's dissimilar enough will need a separate court case, as will every other scheme.

It sounds like some schemes were better structured than others so some could still stand the test of law right?

Boyles was not an EBT. Only similarity is Transfer of Assets abroad and their are valid arguments against ToA applying to EBTs. I feel HMRC played a clever game. HMRC did not needed ToA against Boyle but they appealed it to set a precedence. May be Boyle's lawyers with what ever little funding they had concentrated on other point while HMRC go ToA proved without proper arguments against it.

Why do you feel we will not get upfront letter from HMRC very soon?

[retrodeath]

Why do you feel we will not get upfront letter from HMRC very soon?

In the FOI, Gauke states 4000 will go out in 2014-15 and 2015-16. They don't know about the others, my guess is that the cases aren't similar enough. Maybe they also don't want to put all their eggs in one basket and risk having to deal with claims of dissimilarity all at once. Suspect they'll go after scheme by scheme, learning by each one, tightening up the law as they go.

Personally, I hope I get an accelerated payment as the sooner this starts the sooner it ends. It's been hanging over me for years and I'd rather not have to wait another 6 years as I just don't think they'll leave it alone. Even if they lose at the highest level, they'll make life hell for those that win. Most are back using ltd co, and they just start a challenge against IR35.

I don't have the money, no house, no savings, a tiny pension. I will be bankrupt. I can't see them doing anything else in my case. So they might as well get on with it.

They can't take what I ain't got.

[TheDandy]

In the FOI, Gauke states 4000 will go out in 2014-15 and 2015-16. They don't know about the others, my guess is that the cases aren't similar enough. Maybe they also don't want to put all their eggs in one basket and risk having to deal with claims of dissimilarity all at once. Suspect they'll go after scheme by scheme, learning by each one, tightening up the law as they go.

Personally, I hope I get an accelerated payment as the sooner this starts the sooner it ends. It's been hanging over me for years and I'd rather not have to wait another 6 years as I just don't think they'll leave it alone. Even if they lose at the highest level, they'll make life hell for those that win. Most are back using ltd co, and they just start a challenge against IR35.

I don't have the money, no house, no savings, a tiny pension. I will be bankrupt. I can't see them doing anything else in my case. So they might as well get on with it.

They can't take what I ain't got.

Why not consider filing for bankruptcy now then, or at least look into it. You'll be through it in approximately 1 year and can get on with your life. Not sure if it will be too early for a court to grant you the application but you won't know until you ask.

[retrodeath]

That's exactly what I'm doing.

[ireland2013]

Transfer of assets abroad

could someone explain the TOAA element of the EBT scheme?

Is it signing a contract with a non UK company or the transfer of the most of your salary to the ebt to be be given as a discretionary loan?

[MMSguru]

DeadDOTAS - Discovery

Unless the loss of tax has been brought about carelessly or deliberately, if the information 'discovered' was already in the officer's possession when the self assessment became final, HMRC have no right to make a discovery assessment.

If HMRC had no right to make discovery assessments, where do we stand? NTRT, is this one of points raised with the adjudicator?