Edge EBT thread

[jbryce]

Hmmm...

I do feel at times that some are painting us all with the same brush and that somehow we have brought the whole freelance profession down...

I have no doubt there are some had a priority of avoidance of income tax when going on these schemes, and whatever the rules were at the time, they have acted within the rules.

But there are many who were sold a very slick sales pitch of avoiding IR35 and simplifying administration and no accounts (not LTD).

I think its slightly patronising when some are now stating that you should have known better etc etc...some of us haven't been freelancers for long, and many take advice of professionals such as Chartered Accountants. People need to understand that these marketed schemes were available to Chartered Accountants, who have access to numerous tax schemes to aid their clients. I for one took advice from a Chartered Accountant, I didn't seek to join a scheme.

If anything the professions such as Chartered Accountants/Tax Specialists & Lawyers have a lot to answer for, and they should be tackled by HMRC not the individual who took their advice.

...a fair point. My Ex CA advised my that EBTs were minimal hassle and IR35 proof. There's loads of patronising stuff flying around, but I, for one, have zero sympathy for anyone joining these schemes now.

Anyway, I'm sure he doesn't really give a f***, but Mr. malvolio just isn't a troll - grim and a bit depressing maybe, but a troll? No.

I think the most bizarre thing I read was that scheme users undercut other contractors? In reality such contractors are really just making excuses for their own inability to get work - luckily they have these forums to while away their unproductive hours.

[davedavis]

Mr. malvolio just isn't a troll - grim and a bit depressing maybe, but a troll? No.

Blimey. I think you and Mr. Malvolio need to double your anti depressants and get out more.

I personally think this battle is lost, but I'm not heavily exposed so this will not affect my life one jot. However, I know some people will be in serious financial hardship soon and they don't need some smug g1t rubbing salt in their wounds.

[malvolio]

Go find a post where I have not been supportive of the victims then. All this smug git is doing is pointing out the odd occasion when someone seems to believe there will be either a miracle, a compromise or some mysterious ruling that makes it all go away or, in this case, trying to drum up support for a position that, frankly, the man in the street would have zero support for. I fully agree that people are in an impossible situation largely through no fault of their own, but that doesn't mean the problem will go away of its own accord.

If keeping the real world in view upsets your sensibilities, then I'm sorry but, equally, that's your problem.

[davedavis]

Go find a post where I have not been supportive of the victims then. All this smug git is doing is pointing out the odd occasion when someone seems to believe there will be either a miracle, a compromise or some mysterious ruling that makes it all go away or, in this case, trying to drum up support for a position that, frankly, the man in the street would have zero support for. I fully agree that people are in an impossible situation largely through no fault of their own, but that doesn't mean the problem will go away of its own accord.

If keeping the real world in view upsets your sensibilities, then I'm sorry but, equally, that's your problem.

Okay. Apologies for lowering the tone

[jbryce]

Blimey. I think you and Mr. Malvolio need to double your anti depressants and get out more.

I personally think this battle is lost, but I'm not heavily exposed so this will not affect my life one jot. However, I know some people will be in serious financial hardship soon and they don't need some smug g1t rubbing salt in their wounds.

It has been a long week, and I probably need a drink or two - but f*** this is generally a real pain in the arse.
I'm f77cktastically exposed and it will impact my life to the tune of lots and lots of jots and I am going to find a way to make it fantastically difficult for HMRC.

As an aside, HMRC told my accountant that their plan 'A' is that we all roll over (they will be sending letters to scheme users soon) and that they aren't geared up for a mass 'f^ck you'.

Anyway, it could be worse - the only certain things are Death and Taxes…and when Chuck Norris goes to work for HMRC, they'll be the same thing.

[vern19]

It has been a long week, and I probably need a drink or two - but f*** this is generally a real pain in the arse.
I'm f77cktastically exposed and it will impact my life to the tune of lots and lots of jots and I am going to find a way to make it fantastically difficult for HMRC.

As an aside, HMRC told my accountant that their plan 'A' is that we all roll over (they will be sending letters to scheme users soon) and that they aren't geared up for a mass 'f^ck you'.

Anyway, it could be worse - the only certain things are Death and Taxes…and when Chuck Norris goes to work for HMRC, they'll be the same thing.

Well.. It's the weekend tomorrow

[gettingangry]

Enquiry Letters

Does anyone have a copy of the regular letters that were sent out saying that the scheme was being investigated? I want to know why there was no follow up saying "*** STOP ***" or at least "!! WARNING !!". How do we find out the conclusions of these investigations?? There was no further contact following these investigations which to me implies that they were above board. HMRC also gave P11 calculations to my accountant - why were these issued if the schemes were not compliant?? New legislation in Dec 2011 was introduced to ensure the schemes stopped - if they were deemed non-compliant why was this necessary?? Basically we have had years of HMRC "seal of approval".

[mulberryblue]

Writing Off EBT Loans

As all of this appears to be going the way HMRC would like and we all end up paying some / all the tax they say is due. Does anyone know how the loans held by EBT trust administrators will be written off?

Since HMRC are saying these aren't loans and tax is due, then the loans should be written off - is HMRC going to instruct Edge trustees to do this?

[TheDandy]

As all of this appears to be going the way HMRC would like and we all end up paying some / all the tax they say is due. Does anyone know how the loans held by EBT trust administrators will be written off?

Since HMRC are saying these aren't loans and tax is due, then the loans should be written off - is HMRC going to instruct Edge trustees to do this?

Why do you think the loans will be written off?

You'd be better off asking HMRC the last question. I wouldn't want to second guess their answer but I wouldn't be surprised if they put you on hold initially whilst they they all rolled about laughing.

When you say 'end up paying some/all tax' I assume you mean the 'disputed tax upfront' rather than the properly calculated/legally due tax.

[GoneSouth]

Group representation

If you have any desire to pursue group representation please see Norla Edge Former Employee Self Help Group EBT Employee Benefit Trust

You can also contact organisers via PM here. Request PM (private message) access if you don't already have it. You can post a request or contact the admins via this page: http://forums.contractoruk.com/sendmessage.php

PM TheDandy here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=39502
PM Saleos here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=41765

then make a decision if you have interest in one or both of the groups and if you are willing to foot the likely costs and advise the organiser(s) accordingly

Simply posting a desire to join a group will not achieve anything.


As I understand it both groups are using alternative (and private) means of communicating, hence the lack of discussion from their members here.

Sorry for the repetition but I want to ensure those just recieving letters from HMRC are informed