Edge EBT thread

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Just found the Noral sales brochure and it says they had over 700 contractors working through them and this was sent to me back in 2007. I am assuming that figure would have been over 1000 in their peak.

If a quarter of the users joined the Group, each paying £1000, you'd be in pretty good shape.

Half would be even better.

One lesson we learned was not to provide advice/support/information for free on CUK. Unfortunately, there will always be those people who are happy to stand back and let others stump up the £££

[PeterF]

I'm happy to 'stump up', but waiting for clarification on the various approaches. Are there indeed 2? And what of the brief mention of both those potentially coming together?

[K12AN]

Unfortunately, there will always be those people who are happy to stand back and let others stump up the £££

IF one of those who stands back and doesn't pay to join the group is chosed by the HMRC to be the first Edge case, then this could be trouble? I assume that they would either pay the amount or put up a very weak (cheap) defence.

Certainly we all have different amounts that HMRC are claiming to be owed...if it were relatively small, surely it would be tempting to sit back and let those with bigger liabilties to fight for the Edge EBT scheme and free ride off their defence.

I guess my question boils down to this - If HMRC were to lose their case against the Edge scheme..is it likely that they'd drop all similar cases against Edge users?

Saleos has stated that there are a couple of very similar EBT cases at advanced stages with the HMRC now...so couldn't/shouldn't we wait to see what happens with these before we decide on whether to fight or flight? We would have a pretty good idea by then if it were a losing and potentially expensive battle.

[fizzy]

I couldn't agree more with this approach. We have to use the lessons learned with BN66.

A part of the fighting fund should be spent on creating a website with a private forum where only those who have paid have access to. We then have all these discussions in there.

There are probably a lot of people (including myself) who are sitting on the fence at the moment waiting to see what happens with the group representation before committing them selves either way.

There are probably another load of people who have no intention of paying any money into a fighting fund and will expect to get there advice and legal representation for free.

One lesson we learned was not to provide advice/support/information for free on CUK. Unfortunately, there will always be those people who are happy to stand back and let others stump up the £££

[david se london]

Clarification of various approaches etc

I'm happy to 'stump up', but waiting for clarification on the various approaches. Are there indeed 2? And what of the brief mention of both those potentially coming together?

Hi,

me too.

I posted a potted précis on page 59/60 that was appreciated by some; I have since tried to establish (in private) exactly how 'the group' driven by TheDandy is mandated to manage/choose between the two approaches (original & Saleos).

nb The 'Saleos' approach (type into google to find realworld company) looks to have a deadline to join of 27th this month, so not much time for endless debate.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I guess my question boils down to this - If HMRC were to lose their case against the Edge scheme..is it likely that they'd drop all similar cases against Edge users?

There will only be one test/lead case, and you will all win or lose depending on the outcome.

Saleos has stated that there are a couple of very similar EBT cases at advanced stages with the HMRC now...so couldn't/shouldn't we wait to see what happens with these before we decide on whether to fight or flight? We would have a pretty good idea by then if it were a losing and potentially expensive battle.

Even if the other EBT cases are lost, it may still be worth having a crack at the FTT.

I don't know what your liability is but surely it's worth punting £1000 even if the odds aren't that great? Some may see it as throwing good money after bad but we're talking about a relatively small sum compared to what you potentially owe HMRC (+interest).

However, it's all contingent on you getting your act together as a GROUP and signing up as many users as possible.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

IF one of those who stands back and doesn't pay to join the group is chosed by the HMRC to be the first Edge case, then this could be trouble? I assume that they would either pay the amount or put up a very weak (cheap) defence.

That's why the Group's representative needs to approach HMRC, well in advance of the FTT, to make sure one of the members of the Group is included as a test case.

Although I said there will only be one test case, that isn't strictly true. You could have several users as part of the test tribunal case. There's also nothing stopping someone else going to the FTT after a test case has been lost but that would be a real uphill struggle.

You really don't want someone going to the FTT, on their own, and putting up a half-baked defence.

PS. the benefit of having someone like Saleos representing you is you don't have to concern yourselves with the procedural stuff like this

[elmaestro]

Request to be added in the list for seminar

I have nearly completed my review of the very recent Tax Tribunal decision and will be discussing the full implications with HMRC Specialist Investigations Office in due course.

It is my intention to hold another seminar in London (following the one in April this year attended by 80 contractors) and is there a volunteer who would take on the task of arranging this with my services provided free of charge?

HMRC have expressed an interest in attending such a seminar to put across their point of view.

Due to the costs of room hire in Central London, we will need at least 80 attendees again.

The meeting would likely be held in the New Year by which time we might see some further developments.

Anyone who is interested to receive a copy of the decision in favour of HMRC is welcome to PM me.

I'd like to request to be added in the list for the seminar please. Who should I contact?

<admin note>PM rights granted</admin note>

[DonkeyRhubarb]

There are probably another load of people who have no intention of paying any money into a fighting fund and will expect to get there advice and legal representation for free.

Well, more fool them.

If the fighting fund is insufficient there won't be any fight, so they lose as well.

[MrVirtuoso]

Count me in!

I am also an ex-Edge employee and received the HMRC Notice in November.

I am interested in joining the "joint representation" group.

Admin: Please assign me PM rights

<admin note>PM rights granted</admin note>