Edge EBT thread

[GoneSouth]

Another ex-edge employee here, and have received letters regarding 08/09 and now 09/10 - I sent the standard appeal template earlier this year for 08/09 but having second thoughts on continuing down this path.

Currently in 2 minds about what to do, I was with edge for a period of 2-3 years so HMRC demands are large! However I have enough to be able to pay what is being demanded if I empty house deposit savings, I'm hugely reluctant but its no way to live life crapping yourself everytime a brown envelope comes through the post box. Plus I'm concerned of how it could escalate even more, I don't think I'm cut out for court battles and subsequent increased cost of the whole affair.

My Questions:

1) Can you request HMRC for payment of installments rather than lump sum to ease the pain?
2) I assume I could revoke my appeal for tax year 08/09?
2) Are HMRC likely to add penalties to the requested amounts if all the appeals fail and we're forced to pay up?

For these questions you should speak to HMRC - they are actually quite approachable. Remember the person on the other end of the phone is not the 'one' trying to take your money.

If you want to continue down the appeal route, one option for minimising penalties and interest is a CTD

HM Revenue & Customs: The Certificate of Tax Deposit scheme

There are posts discussing this in more detail in this thread

[EdIT]

PM Access

I also am an ex-Edge employee and have received another HMRC Notice of Assessment for 09/10. For 08/09 I obtained advice from Edge (Michelle Booth), but they seem to be no more.

After googling I came across this forum, which has been provided some very useful information - I wish I had found it earlier. I have read all posts and wish to join the representative group and contribute to a fighting fund.

Admin: Can you please assign me PM rights please so that I can directly contact TheDandy.

Admin: A wee reminder for PM rights to contact TheDandy. Thanks.

[Ron Swanson]

Statute Of Limitation

One for the experts:

My letter from Miss Stopp was dated November 2013
The assessment was for 2009/2010
The only time I have ever used Edge/EBTs was in 2009
But I was in permanent, full time employment (no longer contracting, using EBTs etc) from Sep 2009 onwards

Has the statute of limitation expired or is it still valid - or do I need to pay a large amount of money to a 'Tax Specialist' to find out the answer.

Is Mr Perry or Saleos going to make my Christmas and give me the answer that I want to hear ...............

[malvolio]

One for the experts:

My letter from Miss Stopp was dated November 2013
The assessment was for 2009/2010
The only time I have ever used Edge/EBTs was in 2009
But I was in permanent, full time employment (no longer contracting, using EBTs etc) from Sep 2009 onwards

Has the statute of limitation expired or is it still valid - or do I need to pay a large amount of money to a 'Tax Specialist' to find out the answer.

Is Mr Perry or Saleos going to make my Christmas and give me the answer that I want to hear ...............

What "Statute of Limitations"?


The break point is December 2009 when the challenge to EBT schemes was announced, so earnings for the tax year 2009/10 are in scope.

[convict]

One for the experts:

My letter from Miss Stopp was dated November 2013
The assessment was for 2009/2010
The only time I have ever used Edge/EBTs was in 2009
But I was in permanent, full time employment (no longer contracting, using EBTs etc) from Sep 2009 onwards

Has the statute of limitation expired or is it still valid - or do I need to pay a large amount of money to a 'Tax Specialist' to find out the answer.

Is Mr Perry or Saleos going to make my Christmas and give me the answer that I want to hear ...............

No, not based on the information you've just typed, you are still within the discovery window. Look at the background info, 2nd link from the top, HMRC Time Limits - it's all there.

[grumble]

Another ex edge guy, I received the letter from HMRC last week for the year 2010/2011. I will appeal with the standard response letter after speaking to Michelle.

This is the only tax year that I have been informed about despite working through them for the 2 years before that, which seems a bit odd.

[FHP143]

What "Statute of Limitations"?

The break point is December 2009 when the challenge to EBT schemes was announced, so earnings for the tax year 2009/10 are in scope.

I think you'll find that was December 2010 HMRC do have a window in which to issue the demands etc provided they don't suspect any "wrong doing". They have to open an investigation or start the process of an investigation within 4 years, hence last years demands relating to '08/'09 and this years relating to '09/'10. Once the cases are open though, that's it, they can remain open indefinitely!

[EBTContractor]

Another ex edge guy, I received the letter from HMRC last week for the year 2010/2011. I will appeal with the standard response letter after speaking to Michelle.

Edge is no longer around, emails bounce, lines dead but please do post on the forum if you manage to find Michelle....

[Saleos]

Group Representation

Thank you to those of you that have expressed an interest in group representation for former Edge employees.

Please do bare with me as I formalise my offering. The shape of that, and in particular the individual contributions required, will be determined largely by the number of participants.

To that end I held a promising call earlier this week with someone who has access to several hundred former employees. I hope to be able to persuade them to disseminate information about my offering thus potentially significantly increasing participation and therefore reduce the contribution required of each of you.

I will inform you of the proposal, and cost, as soon as I am able but have already held a number of discussions with TheDandy who know has information on my expertise and my draft proposal. I will circulate it to anyone who has supplied me with their email address by close of business tomorrow irrespective of the cooperation or otherwise of the former Edge business.

In the meantime to assist those with questions on time limits etc below is an extract from the website that I run for those contractors under enquiry in other structures.

Time limits

For those who make “full” disclosure on their Self Assessment Tax Return and who submit their return on time, HMRC have one year from the filing date of the return to raise an enquiry into that return. For example, an enquiry into a 2008/09 tax return submitted on 31 January 2010 (the last date upon which it was due) must have been raised by 31 January 2011. If that return was submitted late, HMRC have until the end of the quarter (31.1, 30.4, 31.7, 31.10) immediately following the first anniversary of submission in which to open an enquiry (s9A(2) TMA 1970).

HMRC do not need to provide a reason to open an enquiry under s9A(2) TMA 1970 and once open there are no time limits set by legislation as to when it must be completed.

For those in receipt of “Discovery Assessments”, the question of what constitutes full, or sufficient, disclosure, is a difficult one and one that will have to be assessed on a case-by-case basis as part of the enquiry process. This is important because the normal time limits can be extended only in specified circumstances.

Discovery Assessments

Under s29(1) TMA 1970 HMRC can make an assessment where they “discover” that any income, which ought to have been assessed to income tax, has not been so assessed. They can do so up to 4 years after the end of the relevant tax year. For example, a discovery assessment in respect of income received in 2008/09 must have been raised by 5 April 2013.

What the Courts have held amounts to a discovery is extraordinarily wide. An Inspector can, in essence, “discover” America twice. That is, the same Inspector can read the same information but reach a different conclusion as to the amount of income that should have been assessed and be said to have made a “discovery”.

Fortunately statute does afford some protection for the taxpayer in the form of S.29(5) TMA 1970 which prescribes that an Inspector shall be shut out from making a Discovery assessment where at the end of the normal enquiry window “the officer could have been reasonably expected, on the basis of the information before him, to be aware of the insufficiency” of the assessment.

This is a complex area of law upon which the Courts have been asked to opine several times over recent years. This will be an important aspect of our dealings with HMRC because if we can show that HMRC should be shut out from making ‘discovery’ assessments, they have no further recourse against the individual. It is an area on which I have direct experience having instructed Counsel and appeared as a witness in the leading case on discovery for those with DOTAS numbers: HMRC v Charlton, Corfield & Another.

Carelessness

The four year discovery period is extended to six years (from the end of the relevant tax year) in circumstances where an under-assessment has been brought about by the “carelessness” of the person who submitted the return (s36(1) TMA 1970).

“Carelessness” may be said to be present where, for example, no disclosure has been made of the existence of loans on the Income Tax Return.

For income arising in 2008/09 that window therefore closes to HMRC on 5 April 2015. It is already closed in respect of tax years 2006/07 and earlier.

Any assessments raised under “discovery” or because of the taxpayer’s “carelessness” will require careful consideration of the disclosure made on the relevant tax return and will form part of my offering.

[bstar1]

Hello all, firstly the good news. TheDandy and Saleos are communicating and looking at whether combining efforts is best. That said there are 2 separate approaches on the table so you need to get in touch with both to find out details. Having all the information to hand is crucial to making good decisions. Please refrain from hypothesising on 'best tactics' until you understand all options.

Unfortunately we cannot spell out in detail the differences here for obvious reasons.

More importantly the cost of representation is going to be very large and so it will only proceed if we get enough people showing interest. This means you must contact via PM either TheDandy or Saleos - preferably both.

IMHO the more numbers we have also makes it more likely that we will combine efforts



If you have any desire to pursue group representation please

Request PM (private message) access if you don't already have it. You can post a request or contact the admins via this page: http://forums.contractoruk.com/sendmessage.php

PM TheDandy here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=39502
PM Saleos here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=41765

then make a decision if you have interest in one or both of the groups and if you are willing to foot the likely costs and advise the organiser(s) accordingly

Simply posting a desire to join a group will not achieve anything.

I am going to post the above regularly to reach any new comers, so don't get annoyed with the repetition

Any thoughts about having a meet and greet forum with All & ONLY Edge Employees that are intrested in group representation with The Dandy / Saleos / Mr Perry, like we did earlier this year with Mr Perry, that way we could get a better indication if this is the way forward, and then maybe convince the 3 that are spear heading this to put some structure around this.