Edge EBT thread

[gettingangry]

How do they expect people to trawl back through statements to get these figures. My account has been closed for 3 years. If they don't have the numbers how can they issue a settlement figure. Previous post somewhere (maybe not on this thread) said that banks only keep records for 7 years. The clock is ticking - as each month passes that's one less loan to find.

On Jan 15 next year - are they going to write to us and ask for numbers, or are they going to magically come up with a figure

Edge changing it's name to Redstone means they no longer hold themselves responsible. We've been scammed and someone has gotten fat from our 10% (upped to 12.5%) fees.

[Rob79]

How do they expect people to trawl back through statements to get these figures. My account has been closed for 3 years. If they don't have the numbers how can they issue a settlement figure. Previous post somewhere (maybe not on this thread) said that banks only keep records for 7 years. The clock is ticking - as each month passes that's one less loan to find.

On Jan 15 next year - are they going to write to us and ask for numbers, or are they going to magically come up with a figure

Edge changing it's name to Redstone means they no longer hold themselves responsible. We've been scammed and someone has gotten fat from our 10% (upped to 12.5%) fees.

If you don't have the data or don't supply it when asked, then the HMRC Inspector is entitled to make an assessment based on his best judgment.

Obviously a very subjective thing but provided it's not outrageous, the chance of getting it reduced without real numbers, is low.

[Talgarth]

My understanding was that the amount of our loans was recorded on tax returns to calculate Benefit in kind tax. Why aren't HMRC using this to calculate what they think you owe them?

[bstar1]

My understanding was that the amount of our loans was recorded on tax returns to calculate Benefit in kind tax. Why aren't HMRC using this to calculate what they think you owe them?

Exactly, they just need to look at the last P11d from when you left..

[Rob79]

My understanding was that the amount of our loans was recorded on tax returns to calculate Benefit in kind tax. Why aren't HMRC using this to calculate what they think you owe them?

Because they have chosen to ask you.

Information supplied to them by a third party (whomever completed the P11D) is used to verify information given to them by the taxpayer.

If the taxpayer does not supply information then the "best judgment" number will be based to a degree on that third party information but perhaps with a bit of an uplift in order to encourage the supply of "correct" numbers.

It's also down to you to calculate the tax due strictly. That's the basis of Self Assessment. Once SA came in HMRC were no longer required to calculate tax due, even though they continue to do so in many cases if information is supplied early in the SA return posting period.

Consequently HMRC are within their rights to ask, have no obligation to search through mountains of third party data and failure to comply will render you liable to penalty and in extreme cases a Court appearance and further fines/prison.

If you have the data - supply it.

If you don't - tell HMRC sooner rather than later.

[TheDandy]

It's well known, certainly at least for Edge P11Ds that many are incorrect, often to the detriment of the taxpayer; if you of course you think you owe anything at all.

[Rob79]

It's well known, certainly at least for Edge P11Ds that many are incorrect, often to the detriment of the taxpayer; if you of course you think you owe anything at all.

I didn't know that.

Can I ask a stupid question?

If you loan in year 1 was say £50,000 and your loan in year 2 £60,000, did the year two P11D say you had a loan of £110,000?

Obviously lots of potential here for taxing the same amount of cash, twice.

[Talgarth]

I didn't know that.

Can I ask a stupid question?

If you loan in year 1 was say £50,000 and your loan in year 2 £60,000, did the year two P11D say you had a loan of £110,000?

Obviously lots of potential here for taxing the same amount of cash, twice.

That was my understanding becausae the benefit increased each year along with the size of the overall loan, (the very basis of the process I thought).
So if I have not got P11d's going back that far, and my bank cannot supply bank accounts, then I have to rely on HMRC estimating? I wonder how they will calculate the APN's?

[Rob79]

That was my understanding becausae the benefit increased each year along with the size of the overall loan, (the very basis of the process I thought).
So if I have not got P11d's going back that far, and my bank cannot supply bank accounts, then I have to rely on HMRC estimating? I wonder how they will calculate the APN's?

There are other measures that you can use.

For example, you can estimate your lifestyle, assets etc at the beginning and end of a tax year and the difference must equal income after allowing for spouses income, gifts, inheritances, etc. Bit tricky and prone to guesswork but if you have an outrageous figure from HMRC, why not?

A bank should be able to go back 10 years or more (for a fee) and if you do get a HMRC figure, then you can ask them to show you how they've calculated it.

Be careful in checking numbers.

In my example above, they may say that the first year is £50k (net or gross - not opening that can of worms here) and the second year £110k (net or gross), rather than £60k. Clearly the second year is wrong in that case but there are other implications if the first year loan has not been repaid.

[trev88]

Can HMRCgo back to 2004 ?

I'm a newbie today. Received the HMRC 'invitation' 4 weeks ago, it contains no figures re my liability at all.
I haven't yet trawled this entire thread, so my apologies if my points have already been answered.
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I have been retired 10 years, now 70, worked thru Norla and Green Bay (but NOT I believe Edge).
I was on the scheme for 2-3 months only in 2004.
I doubt I still have all the paperwork.
I have found two 2004 payslips for 2004, and two Green Bay 'Reconciliation of Employee Payments' for 5/2004, that mention 'EBT'..
1. Can HMRC really go back 10 years and demand tax ?
2. Will HMRC have the correct amounts to bill me for ?
3. If I can 'guesstimate', might they accept my figures ?