HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[LandRover]

Is your assessment even close to being accurate ?

They have over estimated by about 5k what they deem as "other income".

Been a Tory voter all my life....they can take a run and jump now

[MrO666]

They have over estimated by about 5k what they deem as "other income".

Been a Tory voter all my life....they can take a run and jump now

Seriously, I have yet to see or hear of a single assessment which has been accurate, this clearly shows that HMRC are either completely incompetent, or they actually don't know the correct figures received in loans. My accountant has also confirmed the he's yet to see an accurate DA too.

Either option is totally unacceptable.

Agree re the voting, I've always voted Tory but never again, I suspect that's a good 65,000 votes they lost on Tuesday.

[Penguin]

There is still the question of whether the discovery notices were legal if everything was disclosed on your tax return.

This the thing that bugs me the most. When I sent in my self assessment I had the money to pay the tax if there was a problem with the scheme and I disclosed all the loans on my SA return. When they didn't do anything about it I thought I was in the clear. I am now a single parent earning a quarter of what I was on before and feeling a bit sick about all this.

[z4thras]

This the thing that bugs me the most. When I sent in my self assessment I had the money to pay the tax if there was a problem with the scheme and I disclosed all the loans on my SA return. When they didn't do anything about it I thought I was in the clear. I am now a single parent earning a quarter of what I was on before and feeling a bit sick about all this.

doesn't the charlton case still set a president? they are not entitles to a discovery assessment after 12 months.

[Tucker]

Incorrect DA

Seriously, I have yet to see or hear of a single assessment which has been accurate, this clearly shows that HMRC are either completely incompetent, or they actually don't know the correct figures received in loans. My accountant has also confirmed the he's yet to see an accurate DA too.

Either option is totally unacceptable.

Agree re the voting, I've always voted Tory but never again, I suspect that's a good 65,000 votes they lost on Tuesday.

I have appealed 08/09 through my scheme provider. I received an 09/10 assessment just before the budget. I stopped using the scheme in 08/09 so the estimates must be based purely on guesswork. I stopped using EBT's altogether after only 6 months (more by luck than judgement). I intend to wait out the appeal even though my settlement figure is small purely because I don't see why I should be forced into paying something that itsn't due

[MrO666]

I have appealed 08/09 through my scheme provider. I received an 09/10 assessment just before the budget. I stopped using the scheme in 08/09 so the estimates must be based purely on guesswork. I stopped using EBT's altogether after only 6 months (more by luck than judgement). I intend to wait out the appeal even though my settlement figure is small purely because I don't see why I should be forced into paying something that itsn't due

Trust me on this one, the DA's are purely fictional.......they clearly don't know their arse from their elbow.

[Shrek77]

Today's post!

I today received a dreaded assessment for 07/08 :-( I was also one of the ones who listened to sanzar when they told me not to do a SA!.

Just wanted it let others know they are now working backwards (where they can)

[DeadDOTAS]

Question in the "stupid question department" re. validity of DAs and likely impact

Dear all,

I've posted this in another thread, but thought it's also relevant here:

Here's a question from the "stupid question department" re. the legal validity of the DAs we've received:
Hector's website states the following ( SALF409 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: discovery assessments )

__________________________________________________ _______________
"SALF409 - Enquiries into Tax Returns: discovery assessments
Discovery assessments
Section 29

HMRC has the power to make 'discovery assessments', under TMA70/S29 (1), to prevent a loss of tax.

TMA70/S29 provides general rules for HMRC assessments to prevent any loss of tax, but the rules limit the right to make a discovery assessment for any period if a self assessment has already been made by the taxpayer for that period.

The rules that apply where a self assessment has already been made embody the principles established in case law and in particular in the case of Scorer v Olin Energy Systems Limited [58 TC p592]. Unless the loss of tax has been brought about carelessly or deliberately, if the information 'discovered' was already in the officer's possession when the self assessment became final, HMRC have no right to make a discovery assessment.

These rules ensure that a taxpayer who has made a full disclosure in the tax return has absolute finality once the time allowed for opening an enquiry has passed. This is the case even if the tax return is subsequently found to be incorrect, unless it was incorrect because of careless or deliberate conduct. In any case where there was incomplete disclosure or careless or deliberate conduct HMRC have the power to remedy any loss of tax."

_________________________________________________

Here comes my stupid question then:

If everything was disclosed properly as part of the Self assessment (i.e. 'discovered'), HMRC's OWN rules stipulate that the DA is INVALID in the first place? Do you agree?

Now, presumably an INVALID DA = NO actual DA exists? Do you agree?

Consequently, when there is NO actual DA in existence, they cannot send you an accelerated payment notice, or can they?

(And, in case you are trying to be clever, the GAAR rule would not apply either, because you've clearly identified the whole thing as a fully disclosed DOTAS arrangement in the first place.)

I'm only trying to follow their logic - but maybe being logical is asking too much as far as Hector is concerned...

Found this, maybe useful to illustrate further:
http://www.rpc.co.uk/index.php?optio...373&Itemid=129
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/artic...essment/541237

And 15 things Hector doesn't want you to know:
http://www.tax-hell.co.uk/portfolio/...t-you-to-know/
(I'm not affiliated/related to the author of the eBook, but I've bought it before and thought it was worth the money)

Thoughts/feedback?
Many thanks.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Invalid use of Discovery

I don't think you will be able to appeal against a payment notice on the grounds that the use of Discovery was invalid.

It's not for nothing that the new rules have been termed PAY NOW, argue later.

You would need to take this argument to a tribunal at a later date.

[gamechanger]

I don't think you will be able to appeal against a payment notice on the grounds that the use of Discovery was invalid.

It's not for nothing that the new rules have been termed PAY NOW, argue later.

You would need to take this argument to a tribunal at a later date.

Hi Guys,

I am in the same boat for roughly 2 and a half years.... I have been following this and few other threads and quiet a few ppl have kept in useful information.

Ideally we all need to sit and find an action plan... From all the post read it looks like

1) HMRC will send us letters and we on individual bases will have to pay them... I guess we can negotiate with them based on personal circumstances..
2) It is high time we get in a KING FREAKING KONG Solicitor... I read in some other EBT thread it cost 300k ish.... Lets say we get roughly 300 ppl and pay 1000 each.. This is the only way we are getting our money back in furture...

Unless some magic happens and God smiles at us -- We should be prepared for the worse and the only answer i can see is --- We need to fight just like Rangers or any other (Yes we will find out Rangers court verdict in few months too!).

What say you all ?