Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[handyandy]

Sadly utterly irrelevant here - with the IR35 changes at least one set of experts expect hmrc to double down on the MSC legislation as it’s a large gain for minimum effort process compared to IR35

Maybe - but I posted the news on this thread for a few reasons.

1. - another post on here referenced Actinium as an example of HMRC never moving fast and dragging things out for as long as they could

HMRC are rarely proactive and when they do act it's invariably at a snail's pace.

And financially they're protected because they get to charge above base rate interest for every year that passes.

Take the Actinium scheme mentioned here in the last few weeks. Someone said they had an enquiry opened in 2007 and then nothing since, and it's only now, 15 years later, that HMRC seem to be gearing up to do anything. HMRC are covered because they can charge 15 years of interest.

and 2. - Actinium was an MSC scheme (and closed when the MSC regulations came in). It was never seen as an IR35 risk and was used by many in order to mitigate against IR35 at the time. However, it was registered under DOTAS and that's what triggered the inquiries.

plus 3. It may be an early indicator of HMRC giving up on earlier avoidance schemes. Whether (coupled with the IR35 announcement which we still no little of the practicalities) they are now only login to go after aggressive avoidance or are still out for any avoidance in more recent years, is another question. That's highly speculative and they may just be giving up on old stuff to focus more resources on what they can win, or maybe people have been applying to FTT for closure notices and HMRC have been forced to close anything open for longer than x years that has not been progressed to decision point.

[GregRickshaw]

Any 'experts' in this field have been utterly underwhelming in any action or advice so far. I fully expect this to continue, so I shall treat their latest expert opinions in the same indifferent manner.

[Chevalier]

plus 3. It may be an early indicator of HMRC giving up on earlier avoidance schemes. Whether (coupled with the IR35 announcement which we still no little of the practicalities) they are now only login to go after aggressive avoidance or are still out for any avoidance in more recent years, is another question. That's highly speculative and they may just be giving up on old stuff to focus more resources on what they can win, or maybe people have been applying to FTT for closure notices and HMRC have been forced to close anything open for longer than x years that has not been progressed to decision point.

I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful to reference the term “avoidance” about what seems (certainly to many) to be a tax dispute!

[eek]

Maybe - but I posted the news on this thread for a few reasons.

1. - another post on here referenced Actinium as an example of HMRC never moving fast and dragging things out for as long as they could




and 2. - Actinium was an MSC scheme (and closed when the MSC regulations came in). It was never seen as an IR35 risk and was used by many in order to mitigate against IR35 at the time. However, it was registered under DOTAS and that's what triggered the inquiries.

plus 3. It may be an early indicator of HMRC giving up on earlier avoidance schemes. Whether (coupled with the IR35 announcement which we still no little of the practicalities) they are now only login to go after aggressive avoidance or are still out for any avoidance in more recent years, is another question. That's highly speculative and they may just be giving up on old stuff to focus more resources on what they can win, or maybe people have been applying to FTT for closure notices and HMRC have been forced to close anything open for longer than x years that has not been progressed to decision point.

Yes - earlier / historic investigations that never got anywhere.

Ck and boox are hardly historic investigations letters only went out in March 2022

[GregRickshaw]

Some great news coming from CK today. 73 companies have now been removed from the MSC investigation.

Whatever this is, it does show CK are fighting and HMRC are listening!

[jamesbrown]

Some great news coming from CK today. 73 companies have now been removed from the MSC investigation.

Whatever this is, it does show CK are fighting and HMRC are listening!

Nice, congrats

[DealorNoDeal]

Some great news coming from CK today. 73 companies have now been removed from the MSC investigation.

Whatever this is, it does show CK are fighting and HMRC are listening!

Excellent, and hopefully this is just the start.

Although I do wonder if this is more down to MPs prompting an "internal review" than anything CK have done.

[Sijo]

I believe these companies are the ones which are closed already. And HMRC don't bother to reinstate them to pay the bill. It's a good start

[jamesbrown]

I believe these companies are the ones which are closed already. And HMRC don't bother to reinstate them to pay the bill. It's a good start

Still, it's a good sign. I was wondering about this earlier today in the context of another thread (scheme enquiries). In terms of transferring debt, there's no better legislation than the MSC legislation (for HMRC, I mean), but it looks like they can't be bothered to administratively restore closed companies. There was a risk that they might go down that route.

[mogga71]

I believe these companies are the ones which are closed already. And HMRC don't bother to reinstate them to pay the bill. It's a good start

So it appears that Paul Mason was correct in that they wouldn't go after closed companies. This is great news as it means many can now sleep a lot better. The larger companies outlawing the use of PSC's may actually have ended up doing many a favour as a vast amount of these would have closed their Companies already so future MSC hits (which I am anticipating will happen if these lot get through) will have no effect on them.

If my company was presently in a dormant state I would personally think seriously about closing it if you wish to remain in the FS sector for example.