HMRC settlement & writing off loans from Fernleigh / Ronsard/Rathowen

[Fred Bloggs]

Apparently, Ronsard was the trustee of the Fernleigh trust and the directors were Gittins and his wife.

Oh dear, again.

[hobbes21]

Morning Rob. Best of luck with your illness.

The Isle of Man FSA took action against Montpelier and the Court judgement is here. https://www.judgments.im/content/J2606.htm

As a result, a Manager was appointed. He is Gordon Wilson from a firm called CW Consulting (just google CW Consulting Isle of Man).

There was an appeal by Montpelier but they lost. The appeal judgement is here https://www.judgments.im/content/J2649.htm

Subsequently, the company was ordered to be wound up by the Court and a Liquidator was appointed https://www.iomfsa.im/fsa-news/2020/...ed-montpelier/

There has since been an argument between Montpelier and the IOMFSA about the ownership of certain companies one of which is Rathowen and the last event in the argument was an appeal which was dismissed https://www.judgments.im/content/J2796.htm

You mentioned Ronsard/Rathowen/Fernleigh EBT. You'll need to be a little clearer around the names, however a quick check at IOM Companies Registry should tell you that Ronsard is now dissolved and Rathowen currently has a registered office at Fernleigh House. I would therefore suggest you contact CW Consulting in the first instance. Finally, you referred to Fernleigh EBT. If this is a trust you will need to know the exact full name of the trust and the name of the trustee as its the Trustee you'll need to contact about your "loan". CW may know this, however there's no public record I can guide you to.

Good luck.

Thanks for this and all the other replies. Massive help...can't thank you all enough.

Cheers everyone

[hobbes21]

Hmmmm just when I get one step forward, another two steps back. I found CW consulting on the web...with a web page but the site has been taken down and I just get an index page....Aaargh....and the Gordon Wilson linkedin page found in search results has also come up not found....Aaargh.

There seems to be some reference to the same Gordon Wilson also being involved with PWC.

the hunt goes on

[piebaps]

Ring.01624 664949

Gordon was appointed by the Court at the behest of the IOM Regulator and isn't a Montpelier appointment.

[hobbes21]

I've spoken to Gordon. What a relief, challenges ahead but it feels like finally someone who knows what they're talking about and is trying to do the right thing.

Thanks to everyone that's responded just to point out the number is

+44 1624 664949.... The other one above is a doctor's surgery...hehe.

Cheers
Rob

[piebaps]

Great stuff Rob. Keep us posted.

[hobbes21]

So, I've agreed a settlement with HMRC but discovered on receiving the paperwork the names of the scheme associated with the loans were marked Ronsard / Rathowen. I passed this to Gordon who confirmed it should read Fernleigh.... In order to get the loans released by the issue of a settlement agreement from HMRC it needs to match. I fed this back to HMRC who are refusing to change it. After quite a few exchanges with them the last one actually had this line ;

"the scheme name on the document is merely to categorise the scheme which was used and it was not to capture which specific truest had been used to facilitate the scheme. Settlement is not dependent on which entity might legally hold the loans at the current time"

So I pointed out that if it's "merely to categorise the scheme".....why can't they amend it to include the name Fernleigh which would allow the trustees (hopefully now Gordon) to release the loan given HMRC will have been satisfied from a tax and NI perspective.

Anyone had anything like this ?

It's crazy makes no difference to them but causes me massive problems

[regron]

Can't help with your specific query, but are you aware of the possible IHT charges which may arise once the loans are released?

[hobbes21]

I'm aware that there may be an IHT event, but I'm struggling to find out what it actually equates to. response from HMRC when asked..."HMRC can't say what they will do"

If the loan has been treated as income by HMRC and all tax and NI requirements satisfied then what is there to inherit and thus be taxeb whether by IHT or anything else. Tax on taxed, non profit generated income?

Why this is not clear is beyond me.

I had a long winded explanation from HMRC yesterday which may as well have been written by Sir Humphrey....it explained nothing and said nothing.

[piebaps]

There's an old saying Rob about supping with the devil and needing a long spoon. You're discovering some of the possible flaws in the Montpelier schemes.

Firstly, the money which went into the scheme could be treated as your earnings and thus taxed and NICed in the usual way.

Secondly, notwithstanding that the taxman says its earnings, the legal paper trail shows that an entity (usually a trust) made you a loan. If a civil court rules that the money is a proper loan, then the lender could be entitled to ask for repayment.

Finally, if there wasn't enough offence caused already, if a loan is written off, it could trigger an inheritance tax charge.

HMRC appear to be saying that if you get the loan written off as part of your settlement, there won't be an IHT charge. This is a fair approach (if I'm understanding correctly).

Your problem is that whatever trust made you the first loan isn't necessarily the same as the trust which currently owns the loan. HMRC we know have been active in obtaining information on Isle of Man schemes (see here for example https://www.judgments.im/content/J1800.htm) so you can assume that they know exactly who or what made the loan. They'll have included that name in their agreement.

Gordon I suspect is now telling you that the entity which made the loan is no longer the lender. Whoever or whatever it was has since changed. He can't write off a Fernleigh loan if Fernleigh transferred the loan to something else. HMRC on the other hand appear to be saying that they don't give a tulip who the lender is as long as the loan goes.

I'm sure there must be a form of "weasel words" which keep everyone happy. Perhaps some advice may be needed.