Hoey - Court of Appeal legal fees

[DealorNoDeal]

Actually Phil Manley did create a scheme afterwards as reported in the last Times article about him Tax inspector Phil Manley who backed avoidance scheme disappears | Money | The Times so we can rule him out (yes I know it's a 2018 scheme to solve a problem but a scheme to fix a failed scheme is likely to be just another failed scheme).

NTRT was always about the best approach but given it's limited scope and unwillingness to cover other schemes it wasn't a solution for everyone Big Group covers - but it would clearly be preferable if the person controlling the purse strings wasn't using it as a core source of income. Sadly though no similar option exists so, given that fact, it's surely better that the money is spent by someone who understands the issues but didn't create the schemes rather than someone who helped create this mess.

Sorry, I'd forgotten about Manley's scheme to fix a scheme.

I settled a few years ago and I'm certainly glad I drew a line under it rather than getting involved in these protracted legal wars.

[Fred Bloggs]

Sorry, I'd forgotten about Manley's scheme to fix a scheme.

I settled a few years ago and I'm certainly glad I drew a line under it rather than getting involved in these protracted legal wars.

Anyone who believed Manley could fix a scheme with another scheme was nuts. It was absolutely obvious from the outset he was a charlatan and I said as much. Curious he seems to have left the planet.

[piebaps]

What we're all experiencing here is the side effects of a vacuum. Tax has been around for a very long time and many (if not most) issues are covered by many previously decided cases. IR35 is by comparison quite new. It provided opportunities for clever planning which were initially attractive to the wealthy,but which were subsequently mass marketed in misleading ways by operators who (as we seen in the recent Income Plus case) simply had no idea what they were doing.

Caselaw has evolved slowly as it usually does. This has left the unusual position of large numbers of unhappy end users in a limbo position and looking for advice and expertise which simply didn't exist. Add into this the new(ish) concept of social media and its no surprise to find threads developing here in the way we have seen recently.

We continually remind people that if you're seeking advice, a web forum may assist initially in understanding the problem. But basing important and potentially life changing decisions on the words of anonymous posters is never a good idea - ironically including this!!

[Fred Bloggs]

What we're all experiencing here is the side effects of a vacuum. Tax has been around for a very long time and many (if not most) issues are covered by many previously decided cases. IR35 is by comparison quite new. It provided opportunities for clever planning which were initially attractive to the wealthy,but which were subsequently mass marketed in misleading ways by operators who (as we seen in the recent Income Plus case) simply had no idea what they were doing.

Caselaw has evolved slowly as it usually does. This has left the unusual position of large numbers of unhappy end users in a limbo position and looking for advice and expertise which simply didn't exist. Add into this the new(ish) concept of social media and its no surprise to find threads developing here in the way we have seen recently.

We continually remind people that if you're seeking advice, a web forum may assist initially in understanding the problem. But basing important and potentially life changing decisions on the words of anonymous posters is never a good idea - ironically including this!!

Yet Manley and several others who passed through here were/are hardly anonymous. Even going to lengths specifically promoting themselves to the folks who had already been taken for a ride by the sharks out there.

[regron]

Own Goal perhaps

For clarity I am both a Big Group member and a member of the Hoey Litigation Association.

I'm not going to get involved in the ongoing spat, I shall keep my views on that to myself however, on the funding request side of things, I don't think the Hoey reps have helped themselves.

As part of the Hoey LA I used to receive an email telling me of significant updates, and would login to the website which gave those updates. In January once the LC review had been published, I received an update to say the support was being ceased on said website and I would have to sign upto Armadillo to continue receiving updates, but the website would remain open until 31st December 2020 to access historic information.

I can only assume that those who didn't sign up (I didn't) had their email addresses removed/deleted from the new 'Armadillo' distribution list. Why do I think this? Because by chance I logged back into the website to get some historic information, only to find out there was a new post requesting additional funding for the possible/probable UTT appeal. I never recieved the usual email making me aware of such an update.

How many more LA members who chose not to join Armadillo are in the same position, and have no idea the request is out there. Quite I few I would guess.

[Saleos]

For clarity I am both a Big Group member and a member of the Hoey Litigation Association.

I'm not going to get involved in the ongoing spat, I shall keep my views on that to myself however, on the funding request side of things, I don't think the Hoey reps have helped themselves.

As part of the Hoey LA I used to receive an email telling me of significant updates, and would login to the website which gave those updates. In January once the LC review had been published, I received an update to say the support was being ceased on said website and I would have to sign upto Armadillo to continue receiving updates, but the website would remain open until 31st December 2020 to access historic information.

I can only assume that those who didn't sign up (I didn't) had their email addresses removed/deleted from the new 'Armadillo' distribution list. Why do I think this? Because by chance I logged back into the website to get some historic information, only to find out there was a new post requesting additional funding for the possible/probable UTT appeal. I never recieved the usual email making me aware of such an update.

How many more LA members who chose not to join Armadillo are in the same position, and have no idea the request is out there. Quite I few I would guess.

The contractorupdates.com website was paid for and supported by funds that ran out (or more accurately were diverted to ensure that the UT appeal could go ahead) at the end of January. My engagement by the Associations ended at that time. Saleos has ceased trading.

The website hosting was paid for until 31 December hence it remains accessible to those who made their initial contributions to the LA's (just £250 for those who funded the underlying appeals but not the JR of the LC).

I posted to contractorupdates.com about the Hoey fund raising on the same day it was announced to Armadillo subscribers, on twitter and shared with LCAG. But the automatic emails that were normally sent when a post was made do not appear to be live. And the email addresses therein are circa 7 years old so even if they were many will have changed. I made followers on twitter aware of that at the time.

I am trying to help to the extent that I can within the limitations set by the fact that no one else is doing so for free. Hence why I have also asked that those that do know about it share that with their friends and colleagues who are also affected.

[Saleos]

Again which of the first 2 facts are false?

Well for a start there aren't 2 facts. One is something I have been open about; the other you have posed as a question. A question I believe the answer to, to be zero. Do you know? Can you prove otherwise? Or is that why you try to pass off a question as a fact?

You have said in this thread that you won't support someone working for free raising funds for an appeal to an actual case because that might not happen but have gone to considerable lengths to support funds paid for a long promised case that might not happen. You appear to have appointed yourself, with help from the mods, as some protector of people being asked to make a VOLUNTARY contribution to something that will help them.

If you're keen on the past of those involved have a rummage around on the internet at Rebus & Elysian Fuels. Neither ended very well for those involved. Prior to forming BG WebberG had ZERO experience in this area of tax. So what, I wonder, was the attraction of another group of distressed people to whom better settlement terms and pursuit of promoters could be promised?

Is it worse to have been involved in something, more than a decade ago, that you know inside out, and to try to use that knowledge to help those affected; or to get involved in something you know nothing about?

If there are two disaffected, disgruntled, sets of taxpayers, does the fact that one isn't your group, not matter?

If you don't see the inconsistencies in your posts you'll be the only one here. Your agenda becomes more transparent by the day.

Please just stop posting BS so I am not repeatedly prompted by those who Hoey WILL help to return to this cesspit to address it.

[Invisiblehand]

Anyone who believed Manley could fix a scheme with another scheme was nuts. It was absolutely obvious from the outset he was a charlatan and I said as much. Curious he seems to have left the planet.

Last spotted sunning himself on a Morocco beach trolling former clients on Facebook.

[TheDogsNads]

When are you people going to stop bickering and fighting amongst yourselves and grasp the enemy here is HMRC, who are no doubt standing on the sidelines pissing themselves?

It is incredulous some people think legal action against HMRC is not full of pitfalls along the way, that the British judicial system, never mind action against HMRC, trundles along at its own pace and not yours and, that the cost in money never mind effort, perserverance and one's own sanity does not come cheaply?

Drive your wedges between groups just because you dont like their funding method or havent brought an action in 5 years, which believe me, is not unusual in complex tax cases and, the only winner is HMRC.

Demand your case is brought swift to an FTT (or even a time you're unhappy with) and dont be surprised when the judgement falls in HMRC's favour.

Absolutely ******* incredible rubbish Ive seen spouted here. Wise up or you'll all lose.

[dammit chloe]

Drive your wedges between groups just because you dont like their funding method or havent brought an action in 5 years, which believe me, is not unusual in complex tax cases and, the only winner is HMRC.

It may not be unusual but it does matter whether one was actually attempting to get to court. As Webberg has said the first years were simply attempting to negotiate a settlement, something that simply isn't allowed anymore. No sweetheart deals. Fine to speak softly but you need the big stick too.