Things about to get very serious and much more real? / Felicitas Letters

[cwah]

The HMRC tax avoidance part has little to do with this now I'm afraid.

I suspect you've never been to court, there is no common sense in court applied, just two 'facts' which will be judged.

Not using common sense, or being plain naïve and a little bit thick (in my case a lot thick) got us into this mess.

We have to deal with just facts now. Which facts are true or not is what the judge will decide.

Fact is that the money comes from our own invoice and they have given our money back in a form of loan. Could even provide bank statement and precise payment date.

Sounds very black and white to me.

[eek]

Fact is that the money comes from our own invoice and they have given our money back in a form of loan. Could even provide bank statement and precise payment date.

Sounds very black and white to me.

Yep - it's all a fact except for the bit where you signed the money away to the trust who then lent it back to you.

So let's make this clear

your work > xyz > trust > your bank account

This court case is about the bit in bold - the bit in red is completely irrelevant to the court case they are fighting..

and I know you don't want to hear what I'm telling you but I need to be 100% clear - if you start talking about the fact it was your money in the first place, they will bring up evidence to show you signed it all away.....

[cwah]

Yep - it's all a fact except for the bit where you signed the money away to the trust who then lent it back to you.

So let's make this clear

your work > xyz > trust > your bank account

This court case is about the bit in bold - the bit in red is completely irrelevant to the court case they are fighting..

Why would that be irrelevant? If that was so then I could also argue that HMRC tax avoidance payment would be as irrelevant as well.

[eek]

Why would that be irrelevant? If that was so then I could also argue that HMRC tax avoidance payment would be as irrelevant as well.

1) You created Schrodinger Money when you use a trust - as I've continually stated it's possible for money to be both income (HMRC's viewpoint) and a loan (Felicitas) at the same time.

2) these items relate to 2 entirely different legal processes. 1 is tax tribunals in England, the other is a civil court in the Isle of Man.

3) I'm not involved in this but I know an awful lot which is why I'm saying that your argument is invalid. It doesn't matter how the money ended up in the trust (it got there) all that matters here is that bit in bold. Now you can try to argue that it was your money but as I've already pointed out while it was earnt from your work, it wasn't paid to you in the same way as the consultants who work for me earn me money and receive only a bit of it back (although in their case it is via PAYE)...

[cwah]

1) You created Schrodinger Money when you use a trust - as I've continually stated it's possible for money to be both income (HMRC's viewpoint) and a loan (Felicitas) at the same time.

2) these items relate to 2 entirely different legal processes. 1 is tax tribunals in England, the other is a civil court in the Isle of Man.

3) I'm not involved in this but I know an awful lot which is why I'm saying that your argument is invalid. It doesn't matter how the money ended up in the trust (it got there) all that matters here is that bit in bold. Now you can try to argue that it was your money but as I've already pointed out while it was earnt from your work, it wasn't paid to you in the same way as the consultants who work for me earn me money and receive only a bit of it back (although in their case it is via PAYE)...

Ok I see your point but it seens odd we can get squeezed like that.

What authority does the IoM court has over the UK citizen?

[eek]

Ok I see your point but it seens odd we can get squeezed like that.

What authority does the IoM court has over the UK citizen?

You aren't being squeezed - the issue is you really didn't understand what you were doing when that smooth salesman signed you up for the scheme - and all the tricks that were involved in getting the scheme to work are now coming back to individually bite you.

As for you actual question Judgements made in an Isle of Man court can be enforced using The Reciprocal Enforcement of Foreign Judgments (Isle of Man) Order 1973

[Lonerous]

I have read a lot about mediation but still non the wiser really, other than it's some kind of out of court settlement process. The name suggest encouragement for fairness but I really don't know what to think. Anybody been through this. Apparently is called ADR.

Thanks in anticipation

If it goes to mediation, presumably you have little choice but to attend and/or send legal representation. Which in itself would be a hefty sum of money regardless of the outcome? What if you simply can't afford these mediation costs?

[DanJackiels]

Felicitas approached the two bodies representing most of us ETC and WTT and asked those bodies to represent us in the mediation, so Felicitas are pushing it.

ETC have advised they can't take this on as it's not their skillset, however they have engaged a specialist lawyer(s) to represent on our behalf. This is a relief to a degree, but still feels like F are serious if they are the ones driving it forward. It does smack of more threatening techniques. Though why would they be prepared to go to this step if they weren't confident the mediation would go their way.

Worrying, confusing times.

Are felicitas pursuing this mediation to retrieve 100% of the loan value ? Or the 5% they’ve previously offered

[GregRickshaw]

If it goes to mediation, presumably you have little choice but to attend and/or send legal representation. Which in itself would be a hefty sum of money regardless of the outcome? What if you simply can't afford these mediation costs?

Again I'm not sure, ETC have briefed and engaged a specialist legal team, who thankfully do understand these matters.

It has crossed my mind too about can I afford legal costs now on top of all the other costs, how far do I go before it becomes more than the final offer?

We each face a very tough choice and not much time to choose.

[GregRickshaw]

Are felicitas pursuing this mediation to retrieve 100% of the loan value ? Or the 5% they’ve previously offered

I honestly don't know.