First post - HMRC Contractor Loans teams incompetent
This is my first post on this forum (so I hope I'm not breaking any rules) but I've been an avid reader ever since I received a self-assessment notice regarding my period at Garraway Ltd a few years ago (I worked only 2-months / some £5000 as a summer extension to my placement year at university -- and I've been paying my dues countless hours on the phone ever since!!!)
I read this article published by HMRC sometime last week: Disguised remuneration: contractor loans settlements and obtaining a deed of release (Spotlight 48) - GOV.UK
First off -- it's quite clear that if you are currently in the settlement process HMRC will not "reduce the amount of earnings or income to be included in the settlement."
Second-- and rather frustrating to me, is that, although the 'deed of release' is not required to settle with the HMRC, HMRC does not deter you from getting one -- in fact it appears it is encouraging it through its use of language ... the current settlement process on the Inheritance Tax matter says:
"‘I wish to have IHT included in the settlement on the basis of the loans being written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed. No further evidence will be required by HMRC of this. If the loans are not written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed, I will contact HMRC so that the IHT position can be reviewed."
I've been trying to engage the Trust Helpline Ltd company in the IOM. Knowing that I am very likely dealing with relentless loan sharks who are out to get my money, but due to how little my liabilities are at the moment, to get this monkey off my back, I'd have liked to have had a bottomline £-amount from dorresolutions or THL to release me from the trust and write off my loans. Even though I may not end up paying it.
I contacted IHT helpline today and after spending 50-minutes going back and forth to a number of their departments, someone with a lazy funeral home voice called me back and asked me for my 'trust name'. I could only give them the name of the accountant as I did not know what the trust name was (Baker Tilly IOM) ... but they have absolutely ZERO idea about the Disguised Remuneration spotlight-48 malarky. They were unable to help me. This is after an advisor in the Contractor Loans team suggested I call IHT helpline to discuss any taxes due upon a write-off. They seemed quite confident that IHT would have it's sh*t in order.
Moving on -- In the same article linked above, it says:
"You’ll need to make sure the debt is legally released and it’s still possible that trustees or other people could require deeds. However, there is no requirement for HMRC to see such a deed when we conclude a settlement."
HMRC contractor loans advisors, just days before this article came out, told me point blank 'HMRC is advising that we do not engage THL or the likes offering further schemes to reduce your liability'. I was quite happy to hear that, and told them to note the advice they gave me. As I would quite happily just like to deal with HMRC and one day blame Her Majesty's civil servants for advising me not to engage THL (I know that's naive, but still).
Then I read that the article says I need to engage the trust owners and that it's up to me to chase this 'debt' off. And that 'other people' could require the deed of release. What other people? Baker Tilly? Uncle Moe? The mafia?
Essentially, MPs who voted this in had absolutely ZERO oversight as to the wider impact it would have on 50,000 or so contractors. How can they, on the one hand, recognise the loans as income, and on the other, call it a debt and have absolutely no concessions for the extortionate 'fees' THL are demanding in exchange to write off these so called loans.
Later that day I read this article: HMRC insists tax crackdown 'unchanged' despite MPs' action - FTAdviser.com - Sir Ed Davey, a lib-dem MP, tabled a motion to have the loans reviewed. I emailed my own MP and cheekishly CC'd the cl.resolutions email, outlining how corrupt the HMRC is to demand repayment on the full loan amount as though it is income, and completely disregard the wider implication this might have on those who wish to politely settle.
Spotlight 48, in my view was insufficient (aside from being legally dubious); it should have been broader. It should not have only singled out the tax payer, but should have impacted the provider of these schemes and the trust funds involved -- and enforced further laws that protect settlors from loan sharks demanding to be paid at the threat of recalling / adding interest! Written these loans off by default or voided the trusts somehow (I don't know).
I understand that those who do not wish to engage THL are probably going to be just fine (right
). But I simply cannot trust the state. I cannot trust HMRC with the amount of incompetence it has displayed over some 20-hours of phone calls and exchanges in the last four years I have tried to settle with them, to be there when Baker Tilly decides to recall my loans or at the rare chance, try me in court, or turn up at my deathbed and issue me a massive bill. The loans, I've learned, are a separate battle to which the HMRC is turning a blind eye. They don't care what happens after we settle.
PS -- anyone else written to their MP?
This is my first post on this forum (so I hope I'm not breaking any rules) but I've been an avid reader ever since I received a self-assessment notice regarding my period at Garraway Ltd a few years ago (I worked only 2-months / some £5000 as a summer extension to my placement year at university -- and I've been paying my dues countless hours on the phone ever since!!!)
I read this article published by HMRC sometime last week: Disguised remuneration: contractor loans settlements and obtaining a deed of release (Spotlight 48) - GOV.UK
First off -- it's quite clear that if you are currently in the settlement process HMRC will not "reduce the amount of earnings or income to be included in the settlement."
Second-- and rather frustrating to me, is that, although the 'deed of release' is not required to settle with the HMRC, HMRC does not deter you from getting one -- in fact it appears it is encouraging it through its use of language ... the current settlement process on the Inheritance Tax matter says:
"‘I wish to have IHT included in the settlement on the basis of the loans being written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed. No further evidence will be required by HMRC of this. If the loans are not written off or released within 30 days of a settlement being agreed, I will contact HMRC so that the IHT position can be reviewed."
I've been trying to engage the Trust Helpline Ltd company in the IOM. Knowing that I am very likely dealing with relentless loan sharks who are out to get my money, but due to how little my liabilities are at the moment, to get this monkey off my back, I'd have liked to have had a bottomline £-amount from dorresolutions or THL to release me from the trust and write off my loans. Even though I may not end up paying it.
I contacted IHT helpline today and after spending 50-minutes going back and forth to a number of their departments, someone with a lazy funeral home voice called me back and asked me for my 'trust name'. I could only give them the name of the accountant as I did not know what the trust name was (Baker Tilly IOM) ... but they have absolutely ZERO idea about the Disguised Remuneration spotlight-48 malarky. They were unable to help me. This is after an advisor in the Contractor Loans team suggested I call IHT helpline to discuss any taxes due upon a write-off. They seemed quite confident that IHT would have it's sh*t in order.
Moving on -- In the same article linked above, it says:
"You’ll need to make sure the debt is legally released and it’s still possible that trustees or other people could require deeds. However, there is no requirement for HMRC to see such a deed when we conclude a settlement."
HMRC contractor loans advisors, just days before this article came out, told me point blank 'HMRC is advising that we do not engage THL or the likes offering further schemes to reduce your liability'. I was quite happy to hear that, and told them to note the advice they gave me. As I would quite happily just like to deal with HMRC and one day blame Her Majesty's civil servants for advising me not to engage THL (I know that's naive, but still).
Then I read that the article says I need to engage the trust owners and that it's up to me to chase this 'debt' off. And that 'other people' could require the deed of release. What other people? Baker Tilly? Uncle Moe? The mafia?
Essentially, MPs who voted this in had absolutely ZERO oversight as to the wider impact it would have on 50,000 or so contractors. How can they, on the one hand, recognise the loans as income, and on the other, call it a debt and have absolutely no concessions for the extortionate 'fees' THL are demanding in exchange to write off these so called loans.
Later that day I read this article: HMRC insists tax crackdown 'unchanged' despite MPs' action - FTAdviser.com - Sir Ed Davey, a lib-dem MP, tabled a motion to have the loans reviewed. I emailed my own MP and cheekishly CC'd the cl.resolutions email, outlining how corrupt the HMRC is to demand repayment on the full loan amount as though it is income, and completely disregard the wider implication this might have on those who wish to politely settle.
Spotlight 48, in my view was insufficient (aside from being legally dubious); it should have been broader. It should not have only singled out the tax payer, but should have impacted the provider of these schemes and the trust funds involved -- and enforced further laws that protect settlors from loan sharks demanding to be paid at the threat of recalling / adding interest! Written these loans off by default or voided the trusts somehow (I don't know).
I understand that those who do not wish to engage THL are probably going to be just fine (right
). But I simply cannot trust the state. I cannot trust HMRC with the amount of incompetence it has displayed over some 20-hours of phone calls and exchanges in the last four years I have tried to settle with them, to be there when Baker Tilly decides to recall my loans or at the rare chance, try me in court, or turn up at my deathbed and issue me a massive bill. The loans, I've learned, are a separate battle to which the HMRC is turning a blind eye. They don't care what happens after we settle.PS -- anyone else written to their MP?
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