Trust help line email help!

[piebaps]

according to TLH my trustee is ECS International Trustees (IOM) Ltd. (searched website - can’t find)

My contract and deed of settlement with IQ makes no reference to this trust. It states lender (now dissolved) is the sole trustee.

Really confused ?*♀️

Sarah you really need to read the full thread to get an understanding of the position. Basically at some stage in the past you have signed up to a tax avoidance scheme. Your earnings were paid to a third party and some or all of those earnings were placed into a trust.

That trust was operated by a trustee - ECS International Trustees (IOM) Ltd. This is on the IOM company register here Online Services - Company Summary

You will see that earlier in the thread that the Trustee has engaged THL to handle the fallout from the schemes.

Does that help (apologies if there are any assumptions in there - no offence intended)?

[Anto]

You can PM me or you can find our details on line - search for WTT Consulting.

In the spirit of fairness, I'll mention that Phil Manley also offers help in this space and if you search for him at DSW you will find his contact details.

Thank you very much. Embarrassingly I can't find how to PM you on the forum - but I've sent a call back request via your website.

[Dozy Bastard]

Is the poster known as "Dozy b*****d" a THL mole?

I have no idea.

I know that a referral to the mods usually results in them undertaking some due diligence and coming to a decision that they explain.

Bloody hell, these guys are paranoid! I think a quick review of my very first post on here might put paid to that. Whatever, I was only trying to help by sharing what I'd experienced. If people aren't interested then never mind.

Still no sign of my deeds, as it happens.

[BrianH]

Newbie

Hi. Just wanted to say a great big thank-you to all concerned on here. I have just joined and really appreciate the amount of knowledge that is being shared.

I thoroughly agree with the majority of opinions that THL are trying it on and fully intend to ignore their attempts. If they want to try anything I think they will have a long wait and a few court cases to dispute. I get the impression they are after those of us that might jus cave in and seeing on here that a few of us will resist makes me confident that their attempts will in large fail.

Brian

[BrianH]

HMRC Spotlight

Hi,
Also just found thi spublished today that helped me so worth sharing.

Disguised remuneration: contractor loans settlements and obtaining a deed of release (Spotlight 48) - GOV.UK

[LordF]

Another chase up by THL scammers

Update from HMRC and your trustees

Dear Mr Lord,

HMRC have published a statement today, recognising deeds of release as valid instruments for writing off contractor loans. HMRC have accepted that loan repayments can reduce tax liability under the 2019 Loan Charge. They have also accepted that getting your loans written off is vital if you want your settlement with HMRC to cover inheritance tax. This is vindication of the approach your trustees have been taking to dealing with your outstanding loans.

If you settle with HMRC but leave the loans outstanding, you'll need to notify HMRC and ask for a review of your inheritance tax position. You could have inheritance tax to pay. Please note that we are under a s748 ITA notice, following which we are exchanging information with HMRC about which beneficiaries have and have not had their loans released.

When the trustees write off your loans, your evidence they have done so will be in the form of a Deed of Release. You will also receive a Deed of Exclusion to demonstrate that you no longer have any connection with the trust(s). These deeds guarantee that you can never be charged interest on the loans, or be asked to repay them. You will receive drafts of these from DOR Resolutions Ltd as soon as you email your request to [email protected], quoting reference Lord_F_03111945. You can simply forward this message.

HMRC say they do not need to see your deeds before reaching settlement on the current terms. However, it remains the case that they might demand to see them afterwards, if you rely on them for your settlement. They might also demand to see them if you are claiming a reduction under the Loan Charge for the 5% you repaid. You should keep your deeds in a safe place.

Best wishes
Trust Help Line

[Bemi]

More reasons to send webberg a late valentine's card...

Is the poster known as "Dozy b*****d" a THL mole?
I have no idea.
[/QUOTE]

Do you know of verified examples of people paying THL and what resulted?

If so, do you know if the assurances they received from THL actually mean anything?

I mean, not knowing finance and the law I assumed that companies which flat out lied, in writing, to thousands of people about the legality of their payment scheme would get into some sort of legal or tax trouble. Because, you know, fraud is naughty

But apparently not

[neveragain]

My thinking on IQ/THL

I did use IQ Contracts (now dissolved) many years ago and have settled with HMRC.
IQ were part of Baker Tilly IOM and most of the THL mails seem to point to, directly or indirectly, Baker Tilly.
https://opencorporates.com/companies/im/007171V
Online Services - Company Summary

I've been through the numerous threads on this forum regarding IQ and THL, and not sure if ignoring the THL mails and not paying the 5% are entirely a good idea. I'm still undecided as to what to do.
I have not yet logged into their portal either.

I did seek legal advice and was told, that even though HMRC have taxed you on the 'Loan', so ‘classing’ this an income, the loan still exists. To take the legal route to pay a lawyer to investigate this partially/fully would probably cost more than paying the 5% THL/Baker Tilly are asking for, depending on your loan amount.
Also, no-one knows what could happen if you ignore THL and see what happens in the future.
Rather be safe than sorry?
However, what they did say is, if possible, to request for a copy of the deed and check how airtight it is, with respect to completely releasing the loan from you and never to be contacted again by anyone, ever about this, before you pay.

Whether you've paid HMRC or not, technically the 'loan' is still outstanding on Baker Tillys books it seems. The thread below, points to the three gov links, which, i'm assuming is why they are calling in these 'loans'. That’s just my guess.

See mistertach's input, also has a link for Deed information.
https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...8-iq-loan.html

Gov sites:
TSEM10280 - Trusts, Settlements and Estates Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK
TSEM2100 - Trusts, Settlements and Estates Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...ual/intm600060.

When the ‘loan’ was taken out and I/you were told, that this was safe/legitimate by HMRC, is now irrelevant whether you can prove that someone said it or have it in writing. HMRC have changed the rules and messing with them is, in my opinion, not a good idea.
THL/Baker Tilly is a different matter. Whether I/you ignore or pay them, still up in the air.

There could be a GDPR issue here also, or can investigate if they have registered their Virtual office via City of London (this is required apparently), to take them down a peg or two. But again, stress, time and money.

I/we would like to hear if anyone has actually finally had the deeds sent to them and to see what it actually says and how legal/secure it is.

[piebaps]

The link in #135 is useful.

What jurisdiction was the "loan" made in?
What jurisdiction are you resident in?

Anyone wanting to recover a loan by legal action will first of all have to begin proceedings in the country whose laws applied to the loan. Your loan agreement will tell you this.

A loan made in the IOM for example, will have to be enforced via an IOM Court. The lender will then have to convince the Court that the loan was a genuine loan before it grants execution for the debt.

The lender then has to convince a Court in your country of residence that the IOM Execution is enforceable in your country.

The legal costs of this would be a big gamble for two young girls operating THL.

The term "loan" has an ordinary meaning and heading a document "loan agreement" won't necessarily make it a loan for civil law purposes.

These guys are nothing more than vultures and they won't be pursuing anything in any Court IMHO.

[FUIQ]

Tax settling - Loan Outstanding

Thanks for the info everyone, I've just joined the forum so this is my first post. Like all of you I've spent loads of time trying to workout what to do next... I'm settling with HMRC but right now I am not paying the 5%, 10%, or any other fee to THL, DOR, Baker Tilly or any other shark, and it feels like Dozy B is a little too supportive of paying (for it's worth on that debate).

I think the position we are in is that we owe tax to HMRC as they perceive the income taxable, and the loans to the trusts are legal loans which are outstanding and will be until death, at which time it could impact my estate and what my wife and kids inherit... Unfortunately HMRC are bending the laws to their benefit to claim the tax - to be honest I'm passed caring about this and I'm in the process of settling my outstanding tax amount - it wouldn't surprise me if at some point in the future there's a successful challenge brought against HMRC and we get the tax back... but ultimately settling the tax (which I suggest you do) doesn't legally settle the loan under current legislation...

So I see 4 options regarding the loan:
1. Settle any outstanding loan amount which settles the loan,
2. Have the loan written off by the trustees - which THL and DOR think they can take advantage of the situation and charge 5%/10% + an outrageous admin fee,
3. Wait (& lobby) for parliament to pass a law which makes these loans unenforceable; or
4. Wait until their is a challenge by either HMRC or a class action which determines in court whether the loans are enforceable...

I think I might try and push for #3 and will even go down the route of #4 if needed. It's ridiculous that thousands of people, especially NHS staff can be in the position we are in. In my opinion there is absolutely no way that a judge would allow someone to profit from this as it would be inequitable to do so. Having dug out my deed I can see the name of the settlor and would happily take them to court. I also have the emails saved including the names of the representatives of IQ albeit they have been operating under a new entity since 2014, so if I need to I'd go after those representatives and the former company also - it's not unrealistic that the courts would lift the corporate veil but this is yet to be tried.

I would upload a redacted version of my IQ contract and deed but I can't. I think we all need to push back on THL, I can't decide whether ignoring them is a good way to proceed?

Neveragain, would be great to find out a bit more about what your lawyer said. Happy to PM if you would.