Ok, So where is HMRC vulnerable

[Not Losing Any Sleep]

Many of you are understandably throwing in the towel, but there are some very obvious areas where HMRC is vulnerable.

1) Legal
HMRC and the lawmakers have overturned a long established principle that taxpayers should ultimately have finality over their affairs, hence the four, six and twenty year rules. There will be legal challenges on this one, particularly where years are never closed. If they lose this one in the courts it will be very messy to unwind.

2) Infrastructure
Based on current readings, I don't think they have the infrastructure to manage this one. What are the implications??

3) IT Resource
If they alienate the IT community enough, there is the very real possibility that contractors and all permanent staff will refuse to work there.

4) Human Impact.
I know of one person who is on the edge of taking his life as a result of HMRC's behaviour. Sadly, I don't think he is unique.

Any more...

[GreenMirror]

HMRC are alienating other groups as well. Isn't there some sort of parliament committee inquiring into HMRC behaviour? What about the extension of public sector reforms to private sector? Is anyone fighting that?

[Loan Ranger]

I've said this before.

You need to throw big money at it. Hire a team of kick ass lawyers.

EDMs, petitions, writing to your MP. Total utter fecking waste of time. Been there, got that useless t-shirt.

If you want to make HMRC quiver, have £10m in a fighting fund.

[GreenMirror]

I've said this before.

You need to throw big money at it. Hire a team of kick ass lawyers.

EDMs, petitions, writing to your MP. Total utter fecking waste of time. Been there, got that useless t-shirt.

If you want to make HMRC quiver, have £10m in a fighting fund.

Isn't that what BG are doing?

[cojak]

Isn't that what BG are doing?

BG is not fighting, BG is settling.

[Loan Ranger]

I doubt BG has a £1m fighting fund let alone £10m.

Of course, money itself is no guarantee of succeeding but it helps.

[foobar]

Many of you are understandably throwing in the towel, but there are some very obvious areas where HMRC is vulnerable.

1) Legal
HMRC and the lawmakers have overturned a long established principle that taxpayers should ultimately have finality over their affairs, hence the four, six and twenty year rules. There will be legal challenges on this one, particularly where years are never closed. If they lose this one in the courts it will be very messy to unwind.

2) Infrastructure
Based on current readings, I don't think they have the infrastructure to manage this one. What are the implications??

3) IT Resource
If they alienate the IT community enough, there is the very real possibility that contractors and all permanent staff will refuse to work there.

4) Human Impact.
I know of one person who is on the edge of taking his life as a result of HMRC's behaviour. Sadly, I don't think he is unique.

Any more...

They are only sensitive to public opinion (votes). You have a massive tanker to turn around but as Archimedes knew it can be done with a long enough lever and the right fulcrum point.

[malvolio]

(1) is irrelevant. HMRC have no duty of care (deliberately) so this isn't a lever, or even a vague possibility. Paying the right tax remains your problem.

(2) Yes they have. Deep pockets and the ability to re-allocate people as necessary and if necessary will blow a hole that argument.

(3) They may. 95% of the remaining IT community won't care less and will take the work offered. Or it gets outsourced to E&Y again.

(4) is of course a major concern. However I suspect it will not change things sufficiently to make a difference.

Any others? Personally no, but someone may have...

[webberg]

BG is not fighting, BG is settling.

If I might correct that please.

We are looking to settle but on our terms and not HMRC's.

You are though correct in saying that we did not set out to litigate the position, preferring negotiation, but there are elements within the strategy that may in due course go to litigation.

We are not though geared to be a mass protest group and never have been. We take such actions as benefit our clients and clearly if that benefits the wider community, all well and good.

If there are actions that the wider community wishes to take, then as said above, it needs funding and it would be unreasonable to expect the relatively low numbers in Big Group to fund that.

I would hesitate in offering to coordinate such action outside our own clients because:

1. It takes a lot of time (which I don't have)
2. It requires a lot of infrastructure (which we do have)
3. It requires a full time coordinator (which could be hired)
4. It requires funding
5. It is likely to have a number of legal/technical (GDPR?) issues that need solving

Whilst some may decry the effort with MPs etc, to be blunt, unless you organise your own group or join a group and become active in pushing your agenda, such efforts are perhaps the best that can be achieved.

[cojak]

I stand corrected.