HMRC Scheme Enquiries (No Big Group champions or tax advisors here please)

[difficulttimes]

You're right of course about CLSO2 and it's something I'm looking into very seriously. A number of people have said to just call up HMRC and get the tax figure directly from them. I guess this is easy if you know the loan amounts/dates etc otherwise HMRC will 'kindly' estimate a number out of thin air for you.

It's highly improbable that a tax advisor can get you a better financial deal. But in many ways a tax advisor can prove to be invaluable in dealing with HMRC, even when it's a pretty straightforward case. If anything, they provide a level of comfort and a degree of separation, and check that HMRC aren't screwing you over either financially or on the settlement contract terms. Of course their fees should be reasonable and proportionate.

And as I understand it, even if you settle under CLSO2, you still need to report on the 2019LC. Probably so that HMRC can check the numbers again and then come back for more tax if they think you've understated on CLSO2. This is one of the caveats Webberg has warned of.

Settlement does not mean closure.

And the LC is not a tax payment.

So where the f&&k does it all end.

Just to pick up a couple of points...
1 - with or without a tax advisor you will have to ring up and get your numbers. If they don't have it on your SA then they will make a calculation to come up with your loan amount. (5 or 6 times your salary) You will need then to prove what the 'real' loan amount was via bank statements or possibly a letter from the trusts. I had this for my APN, they calculated a figure that was higher even though they had my P11d. I also used a advisor and it didn't do me much good as I've found out that HMRC would rather speak with the taxpayer in question. But that's just my view.
2 - THere is no better deal period. As the poster has put above it's a take it or leave it but every time settlement comes out from HMRC the terms get worse.
3 - All they will do is add your loan amount to your tax return and that will calculate the Income tax and NI if applicable. You can do that yourself by using an online salary calculator.
4 - You DON'T need to report your loan on your SA if you have settled. I've checked this so not sure where you get this information from.
5 - Settlement is closure and if you don't like the offer letter then as I did you ask HMRC to change it. All they want is your ££ so I've found them fairly reasonable.

[ChimpMaster]

Just to pick up a couple of points...
1 - with or without a tax advisor you will have to ring up and get your numbers. If they don't have it on your SA then they will make a calculation to come up with your loan amount. (5 or 6 times your salary) You will need then to prove what the 'real' loan amount was via bank statements or possibly a letter from the trusts. I had this for my APN, they calculated a figure that was higher even though they had my P11d. I also used a advisor and it didn't do me much good as I've found out that HMRC would rather speak with the taxpayer in question. But that's just my view.
2 - THere is no better deal period. As the poster has put above it's a take it or leave it but every time settlement comes out from HMRC the terms get worse.
3 - All they will do is add your loan amount to your tax return and that will calculate the Income tax and NI if applicable. You can do that yourself by using an online salary calculator.
4 - You DON'T need to report your loan on your SA if you have settled. I've checked this so not sure where you get this information from.
5 - Settlement is closure and if you don't like the offer letter then as I did you ask HMRC to change it. All they want is your ££ so I've found them fairly reasonable.

On point 4: I stand (and hope) to be corrected. Are you sure about this, because I had read that any loan resolved (paid or settled) after March 2016 still had to be reported on the 2019LC. Of course, the numbers should be identical to what you tell HMRC under CLSO2, so there shouldn't be any more tax due. But I wouldn't trust HMRC on this.

On point 5: Webberg seems certain that Settlement is not Closure. I can see his point. Look what happened to those who thought they could walk away after CLSO1 - some are being told they must report any unsettled loans on the 2019LC.

I'm interested in what you asked HMRC to change on their offer letter. This could be really useful to us. Can you elaborate?

[stonehenge]

What do you mean by “obviously better for people with closed years?” What does the term closed years mean?
How is CLSO different from just declaring the loan as income on the relevant tax return?

Closed year = unprotected year where HMRC didn't open an enquiry, or they are too late to assess under discovery

[Finalwhistle]

CLSO

You're right of course about CLSO2 and it's something I'm looking into very seriously. A number of people have said to just call up HMRC and get the tax figure directly from them. I guess this is easy if you know the loan amounts/dates etc otherwise HMRC will 'kindly' estimate a number out of thin air for you.

It's highly improbable that a tax advisor can get you a better financial deal. But in many ways a tax advisor can prove to be invaluable in dealing with HMRC, even when it's a pretty straightforward case. If anything, they provide a level of comfort and a degree of separation, and check that HMRC aren't screwing you over either financially or on the settlement contract terms. Of course their fees should be reasonable and proportionate.

And as I understand it, even if you settle under CLSO2, you still need to report on the 2019LC. Probably so that HMRC can check the numbers again and then come back for more tax if they think you've understated on CLSO2. This is one of the caveats Webberg has warned of.

Settlement does not mean closure.

And the LC is not a tax payment.

So where the f&&k does it all end.

I'm considering CLSO too. tbh this is all i'm interested doing...just paying the PAYE/NIC and moving on. I'm not interested in taking any more chances with penalties etc. I take it from your email chimp that you are under enquiry? however HMRC are still not aware of loan amounts? I'm the same but I think i may declare all loan amounts on next response so it gives me the option of CLSO prior to expiry in May.
I get what webber is saying too...settlement isn't complete closure as HMRC (if they have time can come back to you if the settled amount isn't quite enough), however as long as you've reported all loan values what you pay under CLSO should at worst be 90-99% of the total needed to pay back. So at least any follow up should be trivial in comparison. is this what webberg is suggesting?

[Henley13]

Potential fine from HMRC

Has anyone had confirmation of a fine from HMRC due to loan payments?

[Finalwhistle]

Has anyone had confirmation of a fine from HMRC due to loan payments?

Everyone has had confirmation of a fine come April 2019.

[EBTContractor]

Has anyone had confirmation of a fine from HMRC due to loan payments?

Fine for what?

[foobar]

F2B explanatory notes (page 24) https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tory_notes.pdf describes penalties of £3000/inaccuracy! Who has records going back 20 years anyway?? HMRC really are going for the jugular here it seems.

[ric_77]

do we have any other ex AML/SmartPay employees in the forum?

Ive been trying to speak directly with them to get some clarity on loans etc regarding settling but no longer being a paying customer means this is proving to be quite difficult

Emails and replies are much the same.

[Stephen Taylor]

Hi Newbie, Yes, I am in the same boat - 2014-2017 and I am in the process of responding to HMRC after I self declared in January 2017!!! Took them a year to speak to me properly despite trying to get in touch with them!

I believe that Smartpay is now acting as an umbrella organisation....

What stage are you at?