Finance Bill 2017-18 V HMRC DR Settlement Terms

[starstruck]

Yes to full and final for all years prior to 2011, but not inclusive of IHT.. IHT was always going to be separate - I have just settled the tax on the amounts paid to me from the trust.

Did you pay any tax for closed years?

[CDJ]

Did you pay any tax for closed years?

No - HMRC agreed to for go tax in closed years as a part of the SO - the contract stated that this was a settlement of tax affairs for years x to y inclusive (although I only had a tiny amount in a closed year.. others in my group were a bit luckier however) - again to be clear, the advise we have is the SO excludes us from 2019 (closed years and all) and nothing we've seen so far has changed that view.

[starstruck]

No - HMRC agreed to for go tax in closed years as a part of the SO - the contract stated that this was a settlement of tax affairs for years x to y inclusive (although I only had a tiny amount in a closed year.. others in my group were a bit luckier however) - again to be clear, the advise we have is the SO excludes us from 2019 (closed years and all) and nothing we've seen so far has changed that view.

I thought HMRC aren't allowed to do deals and have to treat everyone equally. How come I'm going to have to pay for closed years and yet people that used the schemes for longer don't have to pay for those same closed years?!

[regron]

I thought HMRC aren't allowed to do deals and have to treat everyone equally. How come I'm going to have to pay for closed years and yet people that used the schemes for longer don't have to pay for those same closed years?!

This is kind of where I am coming from. The loan charge was just a thought process when CLSO1 was around. If you have a water tight contract then fair plays.
For me, 'Full and Final' means exactly that. I don't want the prospect of IHT charges occurring 'Sometime in the future'. However, if you are happy, that's all that counts (seriously).

[CDJ]

I thought HMRC aren't allowed to do deals and have to treat everyone equally. How come I'm going to have to pay for closed years and yet people that used the schemes for longer don't have to pay for those same closed years?!

That was the "carrot" for CLSO1 along with paying tax only on the net loan and no NIs (and remember this was strictly for EBTs - ie pre 2011 loan schemes) - HMRC were very clear with our advisors that things would get decidedly worse for anyone holding out.. Our advisor bluntly told us we had no case and that this was likely to be the best settlement we could achieve - that there was simply too many ways that HMRC could attack the arrangement and we would almost certainly need to fight to the highest court (which none of us could fund adequately) - some of our group decided to go to Big Group (and to be fair most of those were Guys that had continued post EBT) , but most of us took the advice and settled.

I truly sympathise with the unfairness of the 2019 charge (and completely understand your anger).. my only advise would be to look very closely at the terms of CLSO2 or the settlement that BG is offering..

[starstruck]

I thought HMRC aren't allowed to do deals and have to treat everyone equally. How come I'm going to have to pay for closed years and yet people that used the schemes for longer don't have to pay for those same closed years?!

And to clarify - I mean the same years in exactly the same schemes. I didn't even know about CLSO1 and I would have had nothing to settle anyway even if I did because I had only closed years, no enquiries. Now I'm going to be paying huge sums under the loan charge, more than people who used the schemes for longer! I'm not saying I want people under CLSO1 to pay more; I want the same deal they got!

[regron]

That was the "carrot" for CLSO1 along with paying tax only on the net loan and no NIs (and remember this was strictly for EBTs - ie pre 2011 loan schemes) - HMRC were very clear with our advisors that things would get decidedly worse for anyone holding out.. Our advisor bluntly told us we had no case and that this was likely to be the best settlement we could achieve - that there was simply too many ways that HMRC could attack the arrangement and we would almost certainly need to fight to the highest court (which none of us could fund adequately) - some of our group decided to go to Big Group (and to be fair most of those were Guys that had continued post EBT) , but most of us took the advice and settled.

I truly sympathise with the unfairness of the 2019 charge (and completely understand your anger).. my only advise would be to look very closely at the terms of CLSO2 or the settlement that BG is offering..

No anger here (well, not at people such as yourself and what you have achieved :-) plenty towards HMRC etc.... The sums were just way too high in my case to accept CLSO1 and would have resulted in bankruptcy, hence my choice to ignore it, join BG and fight on. I am fully expecting to go BR anyway, unless BG can find a different settlement.

I thought (seems I am wrong) I'd heard rumblings that closed years were not considered 100% closed as part of CLSO1. I think the main thing to take form this is to ensure anyone, taking any CLSO engages an advisor as you did to ensure that water tight armour is there.

[CDJ]

And to clarify - I mean the same years in exactly the same schemes. I didn't even know about CLSO1 and I would have had nothing to settle anyway even if I did because I had only closed years, no enquiries. Now I'm going to be paying huge sums under the loan charge, more than people who used the schemes for longer! I'm not saying I want people under CLSO1 to pay more; I want the same deal they got!

ahh man.. am guessing you had no letters, no COP8s, no Assessment letters etc? so no idea you were in the crosshairs at all? That truly sucks. basically screwed over because HMRC didn't investigate.. thats really unfair..

I haven't looked at CLSO2 beyond passing, so am not sure whether it will offer the same as CLSO1.. others have said it re-opens closed years (and in HMRC's view why would they let you off when they have a sledgehammer waiting at the ready).. but you never know.. Have you gotten a tax advisor?

[ChimpMaster]

And to clarify - I mean the same years in exactly the same schemes. I didn't even know about CLSO1 and I would have had nothing to settle anyway even if I did because I had only closed years, no enquiries. Now I'm going to be paying huge sums under the loan charge, more than people who used the schemes for longer! I'm not saying I want people under CLSO1 to pay more; I want the same deal they got!

Huge sums doesn't mean you will pay more than you might have under CLSO1. If you have only closed years then there won't be interest to pay.

Look into CLSO2 and compare it to what the Loan Charge might cost you

I fell into the same trap. All closed years < 2011 and so CLSO1 wasn't even on my radar.

[BrilloPad]

I thought HMRC aren't allowed to do deals and have to treat everyone equally. How come I'm going to have to pay for closed years and yet people that used the schemes for longer don't have to pay for those same closed years?!

The thing is technically HMRC do not do deals! They come to some sort of arrangement where they proceed no further!

HMRC "settled" DTA with Suo Motu. That "deal" was no offered to other DTA users!