Finance Bill 2017-18 V HMRC DR Settlement Terms

[BrilloPad]

Strangely, we received a quote from our Lawyer. He gave us his opinion, looked at two settlement agreements, considered our individual cases, spoke to HMRC, consulted with colleagues...
... and then....
presented us with a bill. The bill was only 30% of the quote.

He will not do any more proactive work as he doesn't think that it will be of any use at the moment. We need to wait and see how HMRC proceed
He didn't tell us what we wanted to hear, would not take on, or even recommend, trying to defend the settlement agreements against the 2019 charge at the moment.

So yes - all Lawyers and Accountants are bastards, but in this case, we got what we paid for. In all of this, all of the promoters, scheme providers, accountants, contributors to this forum - this guy is the only one who played it straight.

I also once had a case where insurance company would only pay £14k of a £22k claim. Lawyer got that to £18k and charged £400.

Those cases are the exception.

[Finalwhistle]

Keep posting...

My deal wasn’t bespoke. It was the same deal as everyone got under clso1. You seem to struggle to grasp this? HMRC were just late that’s all - admin problems their side - and I admit I used it to my advantage because I could see clearer as time went by which way the wind was blowing.

I post here because 1) thought it would help to know my settlement terms - I had a hard time finding out about clso 1 terms - 2) I think there are inherent injustices (people with all years closed pre 2011 would never have settled in clso1 because they didn’t know they had a problem and 3) because I was embroiled in this for 10 years and can’t quite get used to the fact I can put it behind me.

But enough’s enough.

Pimpernel,
Keep posting please. It’s good to have a mixture of people who have been through it and those who are going through it. It also helps as you can actually speak based on facts. I’m looking at CLSO2 now...

[demby]

I'm a bit confused about the IHT side of things.

If HMRC say that the loans weren't loans but income and retrospectively charge us tax and NI (plus interest) - surely we would be double-taxed by adding IHT if the "loans" are written off ?

[webberg]

I'm a bit confused about the IHT side of things.

If HMRC say that the loans weren't loans but income and retrospectively charge us tax and NI (plus interest) - surely we would be double-taxed by adding IHT if the "loans" are written off ?

Again.

HMRC has NEVER said that the loans are not loans.

They say (at least in Rangers) that the following happened.

1. Money is due to an employee from an employer.
2. 10% of that money is paid to employee as a regular taxed salary
3. 90% of that money is paid to a trust/lender but remains employee earnings
4. Trust/lender makes a loan - which is real - funded by the 90% above

Do not make the error of thinking the loans do not exist - they do.

A loan made to you by a trust affects your net wealth. A loan reduces it. A loan written off increases it.

IHT is applied where your wealth increases or decreases in circumstances where you have placed assets outside you immediate estate but which may come back to you.

So not double tax.

Income tax is on income.

IHT is on wealth.

[demby]

Again.

So not double tax.

Income tax is on income.

IHT is on wealth.

If getting taxed as income and then again for the exact same amount as a loan isn't double taxation I don't know what is

[Iliketax]

If anyone is interested, this is a recording of a webinar that HMRC did yesterday on "Disguised Remuneration: How to settle your tax affairs if you are in a contractor loans scheme" https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rec...67266583308035

It gives HMRC's view as to settlements and has slides showing some comparison numbers. After a bit there are a lot of questions and answers. Don't get too excited listening out for an answer to the IHT issue (the question is probably asked 5,456 times but the answer is always "it depends").

There is a bonus point for guessing in advance how many different ways you can try to say "remuneration" (I bet someone wishes that they had called them disguised pay schemes).

[regron]

If anyone is interested, this is a recording of a webinar that HMRC did yesterday on "Disguised Remuneration: How to settle your tax affairs if you are in a contractor loans scheme" https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rec...67266583308035

It gives HMRC's view as to settlements and has slides showing some comparison numbers. After a bit there are a lot of questions and answers. Don't get too excited listening out for an answer to the IHT issue (the question is probably asked 5,456 times but the answer is always "it depends").

There is a bonus point for guessing in advance how many different ways you can try to say "remuneration" (I bet someone wishes that they had called them disguised pay schemes).

If only the numbers in their examples were anywhere near the truth for many !

[Delendog]

If anyone is interested, this is a recording of a webinar that HMRC did yesterday on "Disguised Remuneration: How to settle your tax affairs if you are in a contractor loans scheme" https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rec...67266583308035

It gives HMRC's view as to settlements and has slides showing some comparison numbers. After a bit there are a lot of questions and answers. Don't get too excited listening out for an answer to the IHT issue (the question is probably asked 5,456 times but the answer is always "it depends").

There is a bonus point for guessing in advance how many different ways you can try to say "remuneration" (I bet someone wishes that they had called them disguised pay schemes).

Or at least employed someone (for an online role) who can read and speak.

[webberg]

If anyone is interested, this is a recording of a webinar that HMRC did yesterday on "Disguised Remuneration: How to settle your tax affairs if you are in a contractor loans scheme" https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rec...67266583308035

It gives HMRC's view as to settlements and has slides showing some comparison numbers. After a bit there are a lot of questions and answers. Don't get too excited listening out for an answer to the IHT issue (the question is probably asked 5,456 times but the answer is always "it depends").

There is a bonus point for guessing in advance how many different ways you can try to say "remuneration" (I bet someone wishes that they had called them disguised pay schemes).

It's a pity that some of the more interesting questions from the audience, us included, apparently didn't make the cut and never got asked.

Ah well, sure that was just an oversight.

[webberg]

If getting taxed as income and then again for the exact same amount as a loan isn't double taxation I don't know what is

I've already explained why it's not.

Think about the DR charge.

HMRC claim that there are double tax relief clauses to prevent INCOME TAX arising on the same amount twice. In the majority of their hypothetical examples, I'm sure this works just fine.

They clearly had the opportunity here to say that they would also relieve that amount from IHT. They did not because with very few exceptions, relieving tax paid under one code against tax due from another code is not done.

I'm not saying that this situation is morally correct or ethical, but it's legal.