Horizon exit opportunity (Non-Big Group discussion thread)

[me206et]

I have not, partly due to the problems with not being uk resident and having to pay tax/ social charges on worldwide income in my current country. It seems to much of a risk. Also the whole plan seems a little dodgy to me in the first place.

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

I notice "go outsourcing" are still pushing their solution.
I am afraid that 7.5% of the loan is a lot to pay for something that seems to good to be true.

I also looked at their fees for a solution I agree seems to good to be true.

All the QC and professional advice in the world does not count to a hill of beans if they don't use it. I thought the bits of QC advice they put out to people seemed selective. As if they weren't telling the whole advice, I'm guessing there were however-s in the QC's advice.

What I think HMRC is going to do regarding their new scheme is just say they don't accept it, full stop. Then what? You think the scheme providers are going to fight the case of their members in court against HMRC . . . . just like they did (under Horizon) in defending people in their Lutea and Mien trusts. Hmmmm lets ponder this one for a bit.

If it looks to good to be true . . .

[MyxALot]

If anyone is under any illusion that Go Outsourcing (or indeed anyone even remotely connected with the littany of companies/schemes/organisations that relate to Horizon) are:

a) offering a viable way out of this mess,
b) trying to help you, the poor ex-scheme user
c) acting objectively in all of this

and are tempted to take them up on their 'solution' then please do yourself a massive favour, slap yourself very hard across the face and wash your hands of everything to do with them.

[luxCon]

The gift that keeps on giving

The management setup and the associated companies were setup in 2016 simply to skin the members with the fees. Even the transfer of the trustee from Jersey to Bulgaria is highly suspicious.

Even more suspicious is that the very same named individuals at Go Outsourcing and the trustees are the old names at Horizon and Lutea /Mien trusts.

This whole thing has been a gift that keeps on giving.

They must have thousands of members on their books, some with 5 years plus. Say even if 100 individuals fell for the new scheme (I'm sure more desperate people would have) that be 100 x 20,000, thats 2 million pounds for just sending a few scary emails and a letter.

All facilitated by HMRC

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

But they aren't attacking the promoters.

It's more a case of HMRC not knowing everyone who took out these loans, and their plan is to ask those people to step forward and notify HMRC so that they can then be taxed

HMRC already have a list of everybody that ever used one of these loan schemes because they know who our employers were e.g. Horizon and when you started.

Like many I received a letter telling me to sing & settle or else . . . .

As for the Unprotected years, once I sent HMRC the information for the Protected years, this is what they said:

"I note that you have received income from Horizon from (insert your start date here), to allow me to calculate your tax liability, can you provide me with actual figures you received for (insert your unprotected tax years here)."

They also queried a year in which my income (loan) was small compared to other years . . . those at HMRC don't understand the nature of contracting !!!! I had to explain it to them, bank statements were not enough.

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

If its the first, then the member would become liable for a perpetual loan with a new entity that potentially could be called up on at any time in future

If the later then I dont have cash anywhere near that amount owed.

[/INDENT]

4 - The loan value on the Trustees book is actually a tiny amount due to the currency exchanges performed and the losses.

I know 2019 proposal looks to charges on the original GBP value, however the trustee only holds a fraction of that on their books and notional accounts. The trustee should offer the member to pay off the notional amount and write off the loan prior to 2019. Any reason why they can not do that? Should the trustee by law not offer the best option to its member?

Is there a way to force and demand the Trustee to accept the current book value of the loan and pay it off now?

The new scheme & the Trustees have connections to the same individuals who ran the old schemes. AT 7.5% of say average 100k loan value for say 3000 members this is a gift that keeps on giving.

That is why I had my loans released as part of my settlement with HMRC, I did not want anybody to be able to come after me down the line for the loan. For me the release was a cover my *rse paper exercise because HMRC gave me the option to include it as part of my settlement. I believed HMRC. (Yes I'm an idiot.) I could see someone (a future trustee) hitting hard times or sell the books and then turn on us and ask for repayment, that is why I got my loan released.

Ignore the reduced loan, it is a non-starter. HMRS is ignoring it . . . . and also not ignoring it. For taxing you HMRC is ignoring the reduced loan, you are getting taxed on the full original loan. For releasing the loan HMRC is ignoring the reduced loan and accepting the reduced loan. (Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just stating what happened to me.) Yes this is bonkers but we are talking about the psychopath (insert dirty expletives here) working at HMRC. Look at HMRC's double taxation rules then you will understand how these (insert your own expletives here) can come up with this.

This is what happened.
1) I got my loan release at the reduced amount.
2) HMRC said they do not accept the reduced amount and included only the reduced loan in their IHT calculations. They said the rest is still outstanding.
3) I got confirmation from the trust as far as they are concerned the loan is released and I don't owe them anything. Note, the trust did not write off the full loan amount.
4) I forwarded this to HMRC and said both parties (trust and I) both agree the loan is written off and I don't owe the trust anything.
5) HMRC included the full loan amount in their revised IHT calculations.

That is why I say HMRC does not and does accept the reduced loan. Bonkers but we are talking HMRC here.

[luxCon]

HMRC made Atlas Shrug

That is why I had my loans released as part of my settlement with HMRC,

Thanks for the post. But could you please explain what does the "loan release" mean? Is that what Horizon's new scheme is offering at 7.5% admin cost?

Are you now settled with HMRC on the Horizon loans? If so what percentage did HMRC charge you for tax and other charges such as interest penalties and etc?

Thanks

[regron]

Thanks for the post. But could you please explain what does the "loan release" mean? Is that what Horizon's new scheme is offering at 7.5% admin cost?

Are you now settled with HMRC on the Horizon loans? If so what percentage did HMRC charge you for tax and other charges such as interest penalties and etc?

Thanks

Getting the loans released by the trust, means they have agreed that they will never request them to be paid back. The underlying tax issue however, still needs resolving.

[HMRC made Atlas Shrug]

Thanks for the post. But could you please explain what does the "loan release" mean? Is that what Horizon's new scheme is offering at 7.5% admin cost?

Are you now settled with HMRC on the Horizon loans? If so what percentage did HMRC charge you for tax and other charges such as interest penalties and etc?

Thanks

Horizon's new scheme ! Nope not touching it.

Yes I settled and paid PAYE.

My %age PAYE will not be the same as yours and sorry but I do not have the detail with me.

HMMafia take your loans for each tax year and add them to your income as if you earned it in that tax year. They then tax you PAYE on the new/additional income under that year's tax bands. If you can get hold of the ACC spreadsheet they used, I found it to be pretty close. But you can always build your own simple spreadsheet. Or you can give the psychopaths working at HMRC your detail and they will gladly "help" calculate it for you. But be carefull before going for the last option, those beeeeeps are lying snakes.

Releasing your loan is up to you. You contact your trust and ask them to release your loan i.e. you do not have to pay it back. The moment your loan is released you have to inform HMRC and they happily hammer you with IHT. Even though HMRC say they include the release of the loan and IHT in their own settlement agreement, they handle it as a separate issue from settling after agreeing to their own settlement contract. I.e. they lie in print in a contract !!!!!!

Three reasons why I asked for my loan to be released:

(1) HMMafia included the release of my loans in their settlement agreement as well as the IHT. I have a contract so I'm in the clear. However, HMMafia are now ignoring their own contract and trying to charge me IHT on the release of the loan !

(2) I wanted to make sure nobody ever came after me to get me to pay back the loan.

(3) I wanted to make sure the 2019 chrge will not catch me.

Note. HMRC say on their settlement you can release your loan as part of the settlement and IHT is included. They are lying even though it is written in their own settlement agreement.

[starstruck]

If you pay this new IHT bill. Will your lifetime tax-free inheritance tax threshold remain at £325K? Have you been able to get the trustees to release the loans? Surely, they are the only ones who can do that, not HMRC.