2019 charge - reporting

[webberg]

So if the onus is on the employee to inform HRMC or there are fines etc. What happen if you do not have the information. I am sure a lot of people to not keep records for 20 years! I have odd bits of paper relating to things that were possibly loans, and some I know of, but cannot find anything online relating to some of them or any idea of any figures.

Some I think were written off/ paid off over 10 years ago.

If you don't have the data or cannot get it, HMRC will make some sort of estimate.

If they do, then the emphasis is on you to show it's too high.

HMRC will have data on your scheme and in most instances there is a correlation between salary and loan payments. If they use that, it could be very persuasive to a Judge.

If you think loans have been written off you will need evidence.

If you have paid off the loans then surely you would have remembered that?

[ChimpMaster]

I doubt that the government will take any notice of the experts, but this is an interesting discussion from ICAEW:

http://www.icaew.com/-/media/corpora...d-keeping.ashx

Their summary is:

Our recommendations In the interests of fairness, we believe that: 

• the measure should not affect loans made earlier than when the government announced its intention to take action, 
• as taxpayers are not normally expected to keep records for more than six years, where the loan was taken out before 6 April 2013 HMRC should have to prove the quantum, 
• tax should be charged at basic rate, and 
• bearing in mind that the charge is due to be levied in 2019, this measure should be dropped from this year’s Finance Bill so that proper consideration can be given to it in next year’s.

[webberg]

I doubt that the government will take any notice of the experts, but this is an interesting discussion from ICAEW:

http://www.icaew.com/-/media/corpora...d-keeping.ashx

Their summary is:

Our recommendations In the interests of fairness, we believe that: 

• the measure should not affect loans made earlier than when the government announced its intention to take action, 
• as taxpayers are not normally expected to keep records for more than six years, where the loan was taken out before 6 April 2013 HMRC should have to prove the quantum, 
• tax should be charged at basic rate, and 
• bearing in mind that the charge is due to be levied in 2019, this measure should be dropped from this year’s Finance Bill so that proper consideration can be given to it in next year’s.

The above, and similarly reasonable and sensible suggestions, were all pretty much ignored in Public Bills Committee with Mel Stride MP running out the same HMRC "justification" for what is at heart a 20 retrospective law.

[luxCon]

Lobby groups and contacts with MPs

I doubt that the government will take any notice of the experts, but this is an interesting discussion from ICAEW:

http://www.icaew.com/-/media/corpora...d-keeping.ashx

Their summary is:

Our recommendations In the interests of fairness, we believe that: 

• the measure should not affect loans made earlier than when the government announced its intention to take action, 
• as taxpayers are not normally expected to keep records for more than six years, where the loan was taken out before 6 April 2013 HMRC should have to prove the quantum, 
• tax should be charged at basic rate, and 
• bearing in mind that the charge is due to be levied in 2019, this measure should be dropped from this year’s Finance Bill so that proper consideration can be given to it in next year’s.

Is there no lobby groups or organised pressure groups/petitions contacting MPs to highlight the unfairness of this legislation?

[jes107]

ACCA

I've sent an email to my accountancy professional body for some advice also. Being forced bankrupt could result in me losing my membership and pretty much ruining my life! - Good times!

[regron]

Is there no lobby groups or organised pressure groups/petitions contacting MPs to highlight the unfairness of this legislation?

There is, but you won't like the answer

[BrilloPad]

Is there no lobby groups or organised pressure groups/petitions contacting MPs to highlight the unfairness of this legislation?

I have been through this twice. The first time was a complete disaster. I begged people not to do it a second time round.

The people on the second time round now preach what a complete disaster it is.

Save your money. Join BG. Even if just for settlement advice.

[webberg]

Is there no lobby groups or organised pressure groups/petitions contacting MPs to highlight the unfairness of this legislation?

At the risk of attracting a comment along the lines of a triumph of hope over experience, I will share some information.

There is a group forming to challenge the validity of the 2019 charge.

This group began from a subset of Big Group members but of their own initiative as Big Group is not a legal adviser. Rather the subset will be seeking to use an experienced legal team who are not Big Group, nor WTT.

The group is fully aware that the chance of having the charge removed completely is low.

However, there are a number of features of the charge that render it almost impossible to apply fairly across all those who might be impacted (including actually working out who is impacted). This inherent unfairness of application is an issue that has more chance of success than a simple "I don't care if it's Government policy, retrospection should not be allowed".

So the group is going into this with their eyes open.

We have made available to the group some of our administrative resources. In due course, if the action comes together, we may tender for any tax work that becomes necessary.

In the meantime, the group is looking for expressions of interest in joining - from any contractor past or present - before moving to fund raising and legal action in early 2018.

Leave a name here and in due course, somebody will be in touch.

[JPB]

2019 tax charge

Although not currently a member of big group, I'd be very interested in a group against the 2019 charge

[me206et]

Similarly not a member of BG but would be interested in joining a group action.