Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[tszzz]

Hi, I've been lurking this thread a few times before but got registered here only now.

I wonder how active is this thread or is there any other relevant one?

Are there still people seeking to get out of Procorre / sort out this mess with HMRC?
I got myself into mess because of Procorre too.
Hopefully I'm reaching the end of it soon after years of uncertainty, doom and gloom.

Before I agree to the final settlement figures, which are insanely huge, I'd be keen to exchange experiences with anyone who has gone through it / is going through it, or anyone who could provide some insight. I wonder if what HMRC has come up with on my case could be challenged/pushed in some more favourable direction.

Is the WhatsApp group mentioned earlier in the thread still active? Who could I reach out to join, please?

Also, I can recommend tax advisors who are handling the case with HMRC on my behalf, but I cannot say I'm exceptionally happy with the outcome. Neither they are cheap nor the final deal seems fair to me. I only mention it in case someone wants to get it definitely sorted out, this may be a way.
These advisors already have experience based on handling my case and a few other folks damaged by this scheme so the path is established. They also have a contact with inspector(s) familiar to the scheme in HMRC. Thus another case of this type should go much smoother (which doesn't mean with a less painful outcome) than it went for me. It took nearly three years, grossed by the pandemic though, and some other delays caused by HMRC adjusting their position due to the changes in legislation in the meantime.
Of course, HMRC kept charging interests this whole time even though they themselves hadn't up to recently confirmed how much I am due. Actually, that's the part I find the most aggravating and unfair.
Anyway, please don't take this message as a tax advisor services spam. I am merely someone who got his bum kicked by this whole thing, not an agent or tax advisor myself. Just ignore this bit or let me know if this is inappropriate to bring here up, I'll edit and remove this paragraph.

Last but not least, if there was a few dozens of us, class action could be raised with a chance of winning back some compensation. It isn't viable option though to purse as an individual due to the legal costs. It only makes sense if cost is shared. I will swallow it otherwise, pay what's due in the settlement, then try to look forward after the depression it gives me hopefully eventually ceases. Although, I thought, no harm asking.

Well, Happy New Year everyone, I suppose...

[GregRickshaw]

This thread is still active, though I did read somewhere Procorre had come alive again after 10 years+ of nothing only for it to be closed up again.

Someone who is involved may be able to enlighten you properly though as I am just and interested observer.

[tszzz]

This thread is still active, though I did read somewhere Procorre had come alive again after 10 years+ of nothing only for it to be closed up again.

Someone who is involved may be able to enlighten you properly though as I am just and interested observer.

Thanks for reply. I'm glad to see the thread is active. Would be good to know about the WhatsApp group too...

An answer from anyone enlighten would be perfect.

Not sure what was 10+ years ago. I've just checked Companies House record and can see there was some entity matching the name founded 12 years ago. But most of these vehicles are recent.

https://find-and-update.company-info...rch?q=procorre

Anyway, I got myself into this in 2015. I stopped putting any cash through a few years ago but I've kept receiving occasionally some random marketing email from them with an announcement or invitation to an event. So according to my knowledge they have been operational for at least the last 7 years. But in the very recent years I didn't pay much attention so maybe this is what you mean. The Companies House records shows there have been some changes in the vehicles they use more recently but this by no means is a finite list. They have entities by different names (i.e. Corre Energy Ltd) and of course other vehicles registered in other countries like Switzerland or Singapore.

Procorre preys on skilled professionals who come to work in their professions in UK but don't know any better about legal/tax/accountancy necessary for contracting/small business and are more than happy to delegate this to - something which looks like - professional services.

I'm funding like a nice Lambo to the HMRC at this stage and what's even more sad and depressing, HMRC was encouraging to come clean with them so they would help and be favourable to my case, yet they scr*wed me largely by:
a) delaying their final position for many years
b) calculating tax due, interests and penalties so large that it is all but favourable

Plus Procorre seems to be happily operating undisturbed whilst their victims are being mauled by the authorities. Very fair and just...

[djm2023a]

Hi

Just stumbled across this thread and it appears very relevant to me and my circumstances. I also am in the unfortunate situation of being involved with Procorre since late 2015, and went through their acquisition of my company. Now HMRC are investigating and asking for a huge amount of outstanding tax and NI for 2019. Procorre are still responding (all be it very slowly) I am awaiting their response to HMRCs 'Regulation 80 determination and a section 8 decision'.

The money's mentioned so far only are only HMRCs view of the outstanding NI and tax that is owed, no specifics about additional interest or penalties that may be applied have been mentioned yet.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is in the same position, any advice on how to proceed, and any recommendation on an independent tax advisor who can help me through the process, as they will no doubt be more forthcoming with information and honest with me than Procorre are being.

[SteveS]

Hi All,

I am in the same boat as many on this site, joined the Aston Mea/ Procorre venture in 2013 until 2015 while contracting. Been through the HMRC bullying about the tax, had my case shelved/on hold in 2020 and told by Procurre legal it would most probably be left there forever kind of thing. Asked if I could close my company and was told I should be able to, so I did and its been closed for 2 years. Now had a letter from HMRC saying they are going to court to reopen my company as they 'missed' the notification of closure. I have again contacted Procurre legal and asked for their help, I was finally out of the stress zone from all the letters and accusations they were making, that almost cost me my marriage. But it has been over 4 weeks and no reply, called them a number of time and it goes straight to voicemail, the stress is coming back as you can imagine. I feel really let down by Procorre now as I remember when I was being courted by them to do all my accounting for me, that if HMRC did try this I would have their support and legal team to fall back on.

So, I have contacted an accountant that i know who informed me that as HMRC have never taken anyone from the Procorre venture to arbitration and that my company is closed already, with the right legal advice about the company make up or scheme that Procurre used I could fight it. But it would be best if Procurre gave that information and advice.

As it looks like they have dumped me and run, I was hoping someone on here might know of a legal team that have had success in this area, or are representing others in the same boat, i could go to.

Thanks all

[frontmen242]

Hi

Just stumbled across this thread and it appears very relevant to me and my circumstances. I also am in the unfortunate situation of being involved with Procorre since late 2015, and went through their acquisition of my company. Now HMRC are investigating and asking for a huge amount of outstanding tax and NI for 2019. Procorre are still responding (all be it very slowly) I am awaiting their response to HMRCs 'Regulation 80 determination and a section 8 decision'.

The money's mentioned so far only are only HMRCs view of the outstanding NI and tax that is owed, no specifics about additional interest or penalties that may be applied have been mentioned yet.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is in the same position, any advice on how to proceed, and any recommendation on an independent tax advisor who can help me through the process, as they will no doubt be more forthcoming with information and honest with me than Procorre are being.

HI there, yes I am in the same boat, I received the Reg 80 and section 8 notification this week, so to the accountant and apparently HMRC have been busy little bees and send out hundreds of these over the last couple of weeks, the money mention is ludicrous! I am also going through cancer treatment which I have also explained to them but they seem intent on taxing me at least 3 times on money they have already had their dues on....

I will follow this thread with interest.

[LugaM]

HI there, yes I am in the same boat, I received the Reg 80 and section 8 notification this week, so to the accountant and apparently HMRC have been busy little bees and send out hundreds of these over the last couple of weeks, the money mention is ludicrous! I am also going through cancer treatment which I have also explained to them but they seem intent on taxing me at least 3 times on money they have already had their dues on....

I will follow this thread with interest.

Hi All I too stumbled on this forum and am in very similar position. Having been assured by Procorre that all was in order the last communication to HMRC via Procorre legal letter was 2021. All went quiet for 2 years and Feb 23 received letter stating their intent to issue Reg 80 in March. General rule is that a refund or repayment cannot be claimed more than 4 years after the end of the relevant tax year so assume this is why its stepped up. Also no interest calculations or why they have not issued reg 80 b4 this time if they are so assured of their facts? The HMRC want ridiculous amounts of money for what was 2 years with Procorre. Apparently reading up on the whole "DR" actions, HMRC are going after 22 other companies like Procorre but cant see Procoore on list with hundreds of thousands of demands going out directly to contractors, vs the companies that sold and administered the tax treatments.

Also interested to know if the HMRC are stating part of the payment as outstanding NI Class 1 contributions. My company paid NI classes 2 & 4 as per advice and also HMRC imply employee contributions I have never had employees. I also read that interest should not be applied to NI contributions owing. Sent to Procorre and they said they would send detailed response (as they have previously) but I chased for it and they still maintain they will send it.... I wonder if it will come.

I have been retired for 2 years now and in last 2 years developed spinal problem, and registered disabled. My marriage of 35 years broke up last November and I have spent nvestment and pension monies I had paying off my ex. So I can empathise re illness issues and availability of funding. To date I have not spoken to HMRC directly or engaged tax specialist.

Be very useful and interested to know how others are going along.

[Astr0Man]

Hi all,

> Was with Procorre 2015 to 2017.
> I declared my profit share on the self-assessments.

> Received letter from HMRC for Disguised Remuneration...Loan Charge

Throughout my time - it was never described as a Loan, I got into this mess as I was new to contracting (introduced by a friend) > they helped open my company and also said they'll process all my payroll stuff (oblivious at the team - nervous of it being the first contract etc...).

I'd like to know more about the Whatsapp group too please. Any advise on which tax advisor to speak to? From reading the forum, WTT appear to be legit - any feedback on them?

Thanks for taking the time to read!

[GregRickshaw]

Hi all,

> Was with Procorre 2015 to 2017.
> I declared my profit share on the self-assessments.

> Received letter from HMRC for Disguised Remuneration...Loan Charge

Throughout my time - it was never described as a Loan, I got into this mess as I was new to contracting (introduced by a friend) > they helped open my company and also said they'll process all my payroll stuff (oblivious at the team - nervous of it being the first contract etc...).

I'd like to know more about the Whatsapp group too please. Any advise on which tax advisor to speak to? From reading the forum, WTT appear to be legit - any feedback on them?

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Sorry I am not really familiar with the way Procorre worked but the way you describe it here it seems a whole bundle of different troubles rolled into one.

I am sure I read somewhere Procorre participants were no longer being pursued unless HMRC had opened an enquiry already. I could be wrong.

Aston Mae/Glen Mae were (are) a LLP sort of loan scheme, definitely DR and yet another avoidance scheme, though from what I have read different in many ways to Garraway/Sanzar etc., the more popular loan schemes. Someone will know how they worked and if it is part of the loan charge.

What you seem to be describing in a classic MSCP, very different to the CK and Boox approach and much more like the Costello case. So I'm really not sure if you are in bother for DR or for working with an MSCP and thereby an MSC or both.

Also you mention 2015 to 2017 which is again quite late for the big DR/Loan schemes so I suspect you may be involved with an MSCP, which is a disguised renumeration of sorts there's a big thread on MSCP on here.

If you declared your DOTAS scheme and number on those tax returns, you may be liable for the DR but not the loan charge which is kind of good news.

Whatever and however Procerre ran their business you are going to need help from a specialist tax advisor to sort this out for you, not necessarily to get you out of this but to be certain of the facts before moving to payment and settlements etc.,

Maybe you could provide more information to us here, but better still provide it to experts first.

[Astr0Man]

Sorry I am not really familiar with the way Procorre worked but the way you describe it here it seems a whole bundle of different troubles rolled into one.

I am sure I read somewhere Procorre participants were no longer being pursued unless HMRC had opened an enquiry already. I could be wrong.

Aston Mae/Glen Mae were (are) a LLP sort of loan scheme, definitely DR and yet another avoidance scheme, though from what I have read different in many ways to Garraway/Sanzar etc., the more popular loan schemes. Someone will know how they worked and if it is part of the loan charge.

What you seem to be describing in a classic MSCP, very different to the CK and Boox approach and much more like the Costello case. So I'm really not sure if you are in bother for DR or for working with an MSCP and thereby an MSC or both.

Also you mention 2015 to 2017 which is again quite late for the big DR/Loan schemes so I suspect you may be involved with an MSCP, which is a disguised renumeration of sorts there's a big thread on MSCP on here.

If you declared your DOTAS scheme and number on those tax returns, you may be liable for the DR but not the loan charge which is kind of good news.

Whatever and however Procerre ran their business you are going to need help from a specialist tax advisor to sort this out for you, not necessarily to get you out of this but to be certain of the facts before moving to payment and settlements etc.,

Maybe you could provide more information to us here, but better still provide it to experts first.

Thanks for taking the time out to write your response. Appreciated.

Any particular specialist tax advisors you've heard of? I've tried googling - there are so many! Would prefer someone who has experience with dealing with Procorre and their (stupid) structure.

Will take a look at MSCP and what this is about.

Not sure if you or anyone else knows the answer to the following.

I declared income from Procorre on my Self Assessment for the years they mentioned - which obviously bumped up the tax I paid for that relevant year(s). Is the loan charge something separate to the above? i.e. ALL income I received from procorre was declared on the SA albeit in the following year (as procorre mentioned its when the profits are allocated).

Edit - on the SA it had the partner name section filled in with the name Procorre.