Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[mightyspur]

Had a chat with my advisor, who have said that HMRC have a very strict settlement arrangement based on their understanding of the "scheme". If I try to argue how I should be handled differently, they will simply refuse my settlement offer and I will have to go to tribunal to argue my case. Their interpretation of the Procorre cleanse scheme, is the amount that my company was valued at, is all to settle previous loans received, so the only settlement they are offering is the total valuation, minus 16% in the fees Procorre charged and the rest is considered income and that is what I have to pay the income tax on.

They are ignoring the fact I actually only received circa 14k prior to the acquisition and to top it all off, if I decide to go ahead and pay that, there is still the likelihood they will also come after me for the actual money I did receive in the following years as earn outs payments. So I'll pay tax on income I didn't receive, then have to pay income tax on the actual payments I did receive and have already paid CGT on. Life gets better and better.

[GregRickshaw]

One of the big contributors on here jamesbrown I think wrote a very good piece on representing yourself at tribunals.

[woody1]

If it's any comfort, judges at tribunals are very sympathetic and understanding of taxpayers who represent themselves. They do not allow HMRC and their lawyers to bamboozle people with legal jargon.

If it was me, I would focus on the central fact that you received £X remuneration but HMRC are asking for a disproportionate amount of tax £Y.

[mightyspur]

But you may have to go to the FTTT to argue the amount if the "review" just confirms the assessment.

Would you be willing to go to the FTTT on your own, without an advisor? You'd have nothing to lose, and I believe there are no court costs. The alternative, as I said, would be to use an advisor but that could cost ££££ (or £££££).

Yes, I guess I could go to the FTTT on my own without an advisor, in an effort to keep costs down. My only concern with that is I get caught up in taxation terms or process that I don't fully understand, and I fail to effectively prove my point. It would be quite intimidating as I know nothing about how they work and what is/isn't important. I often have to read the replies from HMRC several times to understand what they are saying, and why they are saying it, but I guess it depends on what happens between now and the outcome of this review and how confident I would be in arguing my case.

It's really getting me down though. I find myself constantly thinking about it. How I basically feel scammed by Procorre and my stupidity for getting involved. How I feel like HMRC are just making massive assumptions in a kind of "one size fits all" approach to their enquiries and not considering the actual facts in my case e.g. How can I possibly owe tax on "income" that I never actually received? The more I think about it, the more upset I get...

[woody1]

Yes, I am sure you are correct, but that's why I want to settle. I'm not arguing against the premise, just the amount they think I should be taxed on. Hopefully I can make them understand and see it as I do, but hey it's just something else to worry about

But you may have to go to the FTTT to argue the amount if the "review" just confirms the assessment.

Would you be willing to go to the FTTT on your own, without an advisor? You'd have nothing to lose, and I believe there are no court costs. The alternative, as I said, would be to use an advisor but that could cost ££££ (or £££££).

[GregRickshaw]

When I agreed to engage with WTT, I paid a flat fee (fairly significant) to cover settlement with HMRC and the associated appeals.

They offered another service, I believe it is called the "big group" or something, where you pay the fee, plus a monthly payment, which is working towards fighting HMRC. I just want to settle what I believe is reasonable and fair. I am hoping now things have started to move again, WTT can present my case and what I believe the settlement should be, but who knows.

There are many with an opinion on "Big Group" I have no comment.

I would cut ties with WTT find another company, get your settlement, your TTP and move on.

I seriously doubt WTT or anyone can ever win any of these cases.

Good luck with it all

[mightyspur]

I'd be surprised if that included taking an appeal to tribunal which can run to many (if not tens of) thousands.

Yes, I am sure you are correct, but that's why I want to settle. I'm not arguing against the premise, just the amount they think I should be taxed on. Hopefully I can make them understand and see it as I do, but hey it's just something else to worry about

[woody1]

When I agreed to engage with WTT, I paid a flat fee (fairly significant) to cover settlement with HMRC and the associated appeals.

I'd be surprised if that included taking an appeal to tribunal which can run to many (if not tens of) thousands.

[mightyspur]

Given this may run and run (and has already run) you need to get your own ideal scenario underway which is a settlement from what you say in your posts.

A good tax advisor will be able to get the figure HMRC say you owe, then get your tax advisor to call them and work out the TTP, a good advisor can do this very quickly and easily. Then you get your life back at least.

I don't know WTT enough to comment but I don't think any of the tax advisors has had even a sniff of winning one 'these' cases, they (the tax advisors) just seem to keep asking for appeals and more information whilst charging a lot of money (which is fine they have a job to do), but given the history of DR's/Schemes etc., are you just throwing more good money after bad.

I settled (not this scheme) a long time ago, got a long TTP thanks to my advisors and my MP and got on with life. Found I could pay it off in half the time but important thing was I got my life back.... ulp

And then MSC came... ha ha ha...

When I agreed to engage with WTT, I paid a flat fee (fairly significant) to cover settlement with HMRC and the associated appeals.

They offered another service, I believe it is called the "big group" or something, where you pay the fee, plus a monthly payment, which is working towards fighting HMRC. I just want to settle what I believe is reasonable and fair. I am hoping now things have started to move again, WTT can present my case and what I believe the settlement should be, but who knows.

[GregRickshaw]

Given this may run and run (and has already run) you need to get your own ideal scenario underway which is a settlement from what you say in your posts.

A good tax advisor will be able to get the figure HMRC say you owe, then get your tax advisor to call them and work out the TTP, a good advisor can do this very quickly and easily. Then you get your life back at least.

I don't know WTT enough to comment but I don't think any of the tax advisors has had even a sniff of winning one 'these' cases, they (the tax advisors) just seem to keep asking for appeals and more information whilst charging a lot of money (which is fine they have a job to do), but given the history of DR's/Schemes etc., are you just throwing more good money after bad.

I settled (not this scheme) a long time ago, got a long TTP thanks to my advisors and my MP and got on with life. Found I could pay it off in half the time but important thing was I got my life back.... ulp

And then MSC came... ha ha ha...