Murray Group (Rangers) tax case - decision today?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Indeed, and there were no PAYE deductions from those amounts, so the employee got all money (the fee paid to scheme provider is irrelevant here - it's a matter between them).

So employee is on the hook for PAYE tax, while still owing money to the trust...

I thought I remembered you.

DFTT

[Edinburgh IT PM]

What if I have paid the APN? Will HMRC give me my money back?

The Rangers big tax verdict says that the loans should be classed as earnings (not other income), and the PAYE is due from the employer (not me, the employee).
Does this mean HMRC will pay me back all the money I paid them for the APN?
(sorry this is my first post - didn't realise the done thing is to reply - not post a new heading - ooops)

[LandRover]

The Rangers big tax verdict says that the loans should be classed as earnings (not other income), and the PAYE is due from the employer (not me, the employee).
Does this mean HMRC will pay me back all the money I paid them for the APN?
(sorry this is my first post - didn't realise the done thing is to reply - not post a new heading - ooops)

Sorry but does not read that way to me. As yes it mentions PAYE and the Principal Trust near end...

Judgment

"In view of our conclusion that the payment to the Principal Trust constituted emoluments or earnings, we do not find it necessary to reach a decision on the foregoing arguments."

[Underbase]

And yet the court thought otherwise. Lots of debate and analysis to come...

It's interesting, if you tried to put it in context for a contractor EBT. There were the people that ran the scheme, they were in a competitive market place with umbrellas etc. They used EBT structures to reduce the amount of PAYE and NICS so they could gain a competitive advantage by offering their employees a higher "pay". Which is starting to sound more like the Rangers case. So if that is the case, then HRMC should in the first instance go after them. There is no suggestion from the courts that they could go after the employees. It could be a very interesting angle to attack on, however there is no chance a scheme provider will use a fighting fund to help with this argument.

[EBTContractor]

Paid APN

Money gone. Can't see it being returned!

[AtW]

I thought I remembered you. DFTT

I am sorry I did not know you had the right to decide who posts in this thread.

[jbryce]

Sorry but does not read that way to me. As yes it mentions PAYE and the Principal Trust near end...

Judgment

"In view of our conclusion that the payment to the Principal Trust constituted emoluments or earnings, we do not find it necessary to reach a decision on the foregoing arguments."

Still doesn't clear it up. My account's view is that the judgement does two things:
1. Payment to the trust constituted earnings.
2. The employer should is responsible for PAYE. Uh? I said. 'Well' said my accountant 'if payment into the trust is earnings and that was paid by the employer/scheme then they should have paid the PAYE".

However, I do have a letter from HMRC, somewhere, saying that Rangers isn't relevant. Whatever - they have the APN money - we're not going to get it back.

I rekon Webberg will have a more joined up view......

[DotasScandal]

The Rangers big tax verdict says that the loans should be classed as earnings (not other income), and the PAYE is due from the employer (not me, the employee).
Does this mean HMRC will pay me back all the money I paid them for the APN?
(sorry this is my first post - didn't realise the done thing is to reply - not post a new heading - ooops)

Were you employed by Rangers?
If not, then this has nothing to do with your APN.

[centurian]

However, I do have a letter from HMRC, somewhere, saying that Rangers isn't relevant. Whatever - they have the APN money - we're not going to get it back.

It's only irrelevant when they lose.

Either way, I think it's more than just a binary matter. Parts will be relevant, parts will not.

Look, there's no sugar coating it. An EBT defeat is bad for all EBT schemes, so yesterday was a bad day overall for anyone in an EBT scheme. It will give HMRC some hooks to latch onto, plus also allow them to justify the continued pursuit of EBTs.

But how translatable that is to the specifics of contractor EBT schemes remains to be seen.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I am sorry I did not know you had the right to decide who posts in this thread.

Хуй