Just received a letter for "end of the 08 tax yr" I have no open inquiry or followers notice and as well all know almost most of us only started receiving letter from 08/09 only. I have to say HMRC is really trying their luck!!
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Just received a pre APN letter for 07/08
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Originally posted by philinlondon View PostJust received a letter for "end of the 08 tax yr" I have no open inquiry or followers notice and as well all know almost most of us only started receiving letter from 08/09 only. I have to say HMRC is really trying their luck!!
In all cases, good luck challenging it. But by all means challenge it. -
When you challenge the APN, they may magic a copy of an enquiry letter out of thin air that they supposedly sent you.
We've seen this. Neither taxpayer nor their agent received the original letter. When challenged, HMRC stuck to their guns that they sent it, and it's very hard to prove otherwise.
We've even had one case where a guy requested a copy of a letter they sent him on X date, and the copy didn't match the original. The wording "Section 9a TMA 1970 Notice" had been inserted in the copy. HMRC are still looking into how this happened.Comment
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Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View PostWhen you challenge the APN, they may magic a copy of an enquiry letter out of thin air that they supposedly sent you.
We've seen this. Neither taxpayer nor their agent received the original letter. When challenged, HMRC stuck to their guns that they sent it, and it's very hard to prove otherwise.
We've even had one case where a guy requested a copy of a letter they sent him on X date, and the copy didn't match the original. The wording "Section 9a TMA 1970 Notice" had been inserted in the copy. HMRC are still looking into how this happened.Comment
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I've said before and I'll repeat that until I see some empirical evidence, I'm not a believer in this conspiracy theory.
No junior HMRC officer responsible for finding and sending a copy of an enquiry letter would alter it on their volition. It would be an easy matter to question, i.e. why does your version vary from mine? and if there is a suspicion of wrong doing, said junior officer is with P45.
That leaves a more senior officer breaking into the system and altering records. Again, I'm no IT expert but that would be relatively easy to ascertain? Again a sacking offence.
Then we have policy makers. If there is a written or unwritten policy to alter past correspondence, there are enough disgruntled, disaffected, demoralised junior staff through whom such a policy has to be executed that keeping it a secret would be impossible.
If I am presented with unequivocal evidence that this practice is happening and is condoned by HMRC then I will change my opinion. Until then, whilst distinguishing incompetence from conspiracy might be difficult, I'd prefer to believe in the former.Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostI've said before and I'll repeat that until I see some empirical evidence, I'm not a believer in this conspiracy theory.
No junior HMRC officer responsible for finding and sending a copy of an enquiry letter would alter it on their volition. It would be an easy matter to question, i.e. why does your version vary from mine? and if there is a suspicion of wrong doing, said junior officer is with P45.
That leaves a more senior officer breaking into the system and altering records. Again, I'm no IT expert but that would be relatively easy to ascertain? Again a sacking offence.
Then we have policy makers. If there is a written or unwritten policy to alter past correspondence, there are enough disgruntled, disaffected, demoralised junior staff through whom such a policy has to be executed that keeping it a secret would be impossible.
If I am presented with unequivocal evidence that this practice is happening and is condoned by HMRC then I will change my opinion. Until then, whilst distinguishing incompetence from conspiracy might be difficult, I'd prefer to believe in the former.
What I totally could see happening is that the bozo at HMRC located the original Word document, noticed that there were some potential loose ends (absence of Section 9A mention) that could make it invalid, and took it upon himself to edit the doc, assuming that the "customer" did not have the original to compare to
In other words, it can be the personal initiative of an overzealous HMRC person, and doesn't automatically mean there is a conspiracy.
It is still a smoking gun of sorts.
To execute the above, there would be no need to break into systems - given that HMRC staff routinely produce "copies" that are no more than a fresh printout of an electronic document, I am sure it is possible to create an altered one without much effort.
With that said, I am sticking to my other "conspiracy theories" re the other aspects of the management of APNs, and have no doubt that in time, they will be exposed as conspiracy FACTSComment
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Well Mr Scandal, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one until I see evidence.
If your hypothetical officer did as you suggest, when this is announced to his superiors, he is toast.Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by webberg View PostWell Mr Scandal, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one until I see evidence.
If your hypothetical officer did as you suggest, when this is announced to his superiors, he is toast.
I wouldn't put it past them, they are in the main thick, vindictive and nasty, and from my experience on the phone often with some kind of complex where they seem to enjoy the power they perceive themselves to have over the little people.Comment
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Originally posted by Dylan View Postsome kind of complex where they seem to enjoy the power they perceive themselves to have over the little people.Comment
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Originally posted by DotasScandal View PostWell, these front line positions are not exactly filled by people attracted by the great pay or the prestige of the organisation... They attract certain personality types - those who enjoy having the upper hand on someone who has no choice but deal with them. Very common in civil service unfortunately.Comment
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